74 csl driving experience

[alanmcg]

i had the rare and distinct privilege of driving a 74 csl (injected) city pack car last week on a long and spirited drive through some back roads. wow was it fun!! the car has the stock engine except that it has a 'spicy' cam (although couldnt have been too spicy, as the idle was very smooth).

my question is aimed primarily at the csl and engine experts here (sfdon) - why was this car/engine SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL and fun to drive than my 74 coupe with 3.5 motronic. my question is less about the handling of the car cuz there are huge differences here (400-600 lbs lighter, manual steering box, strut bar, etc), but i was SHOCKED at the power and responsiveness of the 3.0 engine. i would have thought with the extra displacement, my engine would have been roughly comparable in power, but its not, not even close actually.

can anyone enlighten me on this? does a spicy cam really make that big of a difference (if so, specific advice requested, as i will be getting that set up done very very soon).

 

[Polariscsl]

Without a dyno it's difficult to give an exact answer. In my experience a well sorted and cammed 3.0 is more eager to rev due to the reduced stroke, and thereby may offer a more pleasing experience on a fast drive. The 3.5 is slightly more lazy in comparison (unless highly modified) so maybe that explains some of the difference you felt??

 

[JFENG]

Watching other E9 drivers...

Those w OD five speeds seem to keep the revs lower due to the extra torque.

Same thing with Jags. I rev the crap out of my 3.4l but tend to shift the 4.2liter a thousand or so lower in the rev range. The big motor is faster but feels slower.

Maybe the CSL had a shorter rear ratio too. Most of us have gearing setup for cruising so we'er often not in the most exciting part of the rpm range.

Plus, you were just experiencing irrational exuberance because it wasn't your car ... ie thrashing like you stole it.

How well setup is your 3.5?

 

[2275xxx]

D-Jetronic is lively by nature : no heavy AFM flap to move.
A good 3153 engine with a slightly sharper cam must produce something like 215-220 responsive HPs.

Also the total weight of a City Pack Batmobile is probably not more than 1300 Kg.
The weight of a 3.0CSi with air conditioning, US bumpers, electric windows, is probably more than 1450Kg.

A 10%+ weight difference is a lot.

 

[Sven]

The close ratio 5 spd may have had something to do with it. Do you remember what rpm you hit at 60 mph in 4th gear? I think your CS is probably around 3,000 rpm with the OD 5 spd in 4th. Does your CS have the 3.45 or 3.64 diff?

 

[alanmcg]

replies

sven, my lsd is the 364, cant remember what rpm @ 60. how did you think it compared to your car re power?

2275, i think the weight really is the major factor here, although this csl did have electric windows and steel doors (alu hood and trunk).

bfeng, ha, yea, im sure there was some irrational exuberance. my 3.5 is pretty well sorted, miller maf and war chip, newly rebuilt injectors, new plugs, plug wires, coil, recently adjusted valves, etc etc. it dyno'd at 203hp at the rear wheels, which i think is about right for a late 80's us 3.5 csi. ive driven svens car, which is EXTREMELY well sorted, with a fresh 3.5 w/ megasquirt, and my car is probably 10%ish less powerful than his, but his car is a high-water mark for all coupes.

polaris, interesting comments, your description of 'more eager to rev' is a perfect way to describe how the csl felt to me.

 

[sfdon]

Compression ratio and cam would do it- minus a bunch of weight will really help.
What cam do you have?
Funny thing- I have driven a bunch of CSL's and I thought they were pretty tame compared to a 3.5 engine with 10:1 pistons and a Schrick or Burke cam.

 

[giannicsl]

cammes 284° NEW!!

hi guys,
I have a cam very interesting CAMMES for sporty driving, but also the city!
is brand new 284 ° .. DIBILIAS ...

I WANT to sell it to 300,00 euros ..
anyone is interested?
would go very well with weber's .

 

[couttsdesign]

maybe it had a lightened flywheel...Is there any way you can find out, as this would be impossible to check externally.

 

[JFENG]

What cam?

hi guys,
I have a cam very interesting CAMMES for sporty driving, but also the city!
is brand new 284 ° .. DIBILIAS ...

I WANT to sell it to 300,00 euros ..
anyone is interested?
would go very well with weber's .

What is a Dibilias cam?

 

[pmansson]

Good 350 mile drive yesterday

I drove my Turkis CSi, with an almost brand new (mileage wise) stock engine from the S of Sweden to Stockholm yesterday. OD box, everything replaced on the front and rear axle. Not a drop of oil (it has been parked above an E-type for 4 weeks), and this car really moves! I was doing between 60 and 100 MPH the whole way on country roads and motorways. I must have passed 100 cars. One car passed me: an Audi with a red sign on the front grille, but he saluted me going by.
I had 2.45kg in the Michelin 205 XWX on stock 14" wheels, and good music in the car.
These cars can be sensational, 40 years after manufacture.

 

[DerSchwede]

I drove my Turkis CSi, with an almost brand new (mileage wise) stock engine from the S of Sweden to Stockholm yesterday. OD box, everything replaced on the front and rear axle. Not a drop of oil (it has been parked above an E-type for 4 weeks), and this car really moves! I was doing between 60 and 100 MPH the whole way on country roads and motorways. I must have passed 100 cars. One car passed me: an Audi with a red sign on the front grille, but he saluted me going by.
I had 2.45kg in the Michelin 205 XWX on stock 14" wheels, and good music in the car.
These cars can be sensational, 40 years after manufacture.

Now that is how these cars deserve to be driven and you enjoy every bit of it! I used to drive my S with Weber carbs on a daily basis when I worked in Munich and it was fun cruising at 120 mph!

 

[Arde]

... One car passed me: an Audi with a red sign on the front grille, but he saluted me going by.

Did it have a siren on the roof and SILOP written in blue on the hood?

 

[FinnCoupe]

I also think 3.0 might be a bit more responsive compared to 3.5...?


Couple of weeks ago I drove my CSL from Helsinki to western Finland for a trackday, ~780km there and back. Longest trip for me with that car and longest for the car for about 20 years....

Can runs very well but after 100km I had to put on earplugs because there isn't any sound insulation in CSL and radio didn't work.

 

[pmansson]

Your cars

Well done on that drive! Yes, the CSL is a bit brutal. I use earplugs on longer distances as well (in my CSL and similar cars). The cruising CSis are fine though.
When was your 2800 CS built?
I have 2200658, which my father bought from BMW in 1971. They had had it as a demonstrator plus company car for a manager.
I know that it was built on January 23rd (or very close), 1969, yet there is something strange. How can Karmann and BMW have finished 658 cars between Dec 1st, 1968 and mid-late January of 1969?? (with the holidays and considering it was a new production line, with surely lots of problems). I know a guy in Sweden with a much, much lower VIN, and that car was made a few months later....
Do you know when your car was built?
Peder

 

[HB Chris]

Peder,

138 built in 1968 from table below, next number is 1969, for the 2200xxx series.

2800 CS 138 2534 3335 276 =. 6283

I would ask Andreas again, sometimes they reply with incorrect build dates.

Chris

 

[DerSchwede]

i had the rare and distinct privilege of driving a 74 csl (injected) city pack car last week on a long and spirited drive through some back roads. wow was it fun!! the car has the stock engine except that it has a 'spicy' cam (although couldnt have been too spicy, as the idle was very smooth).

can anyone enlighten me on this? does a spicy cam really make that big of a difference (if so, specific advice requested, as i will be getting that set up done very very soon).

As the D-jet responds very poor to changes to the cam profile, I suggest that it was just a well sorted D-jet engine. A hot cam will automatically result in rich running conditions at low revs and lean on top and at WOT. The UK importers of the day offered new car customers a blueprint option giving ca 10% more torque and power. The 3.0 is quite rev-happy and together with the 9.5:1 comp it gives you an amazing experiance behind the wheel. In my opinion the best M30 - smooth, powerful, lovely sound, great milage, fun to drive, nice responce!

Cheers
A

 

[FinnCoupe]

Do you know when your car was built?

Registration paper shows that car was registered May 23rd 1969 and if I remember correctly it came by ship in early May.
I have been told that this car was displayed at a car show in Helsinki, Finland in May and my grandfather bought the car after the show...

I have to check for the actual manufacturing date.