Amazing CSL for sale. Salvage title. Your thoughts.

[61porsche]

Amazing, Salvage, Thoughts

The title says it all. Somehow it got off track.

Amazing- that's right. Sounds like a compliment to me.

Salvage- that's right. History- Mid 80's- interest rates at 20%, big recession, high unemployment; crazy times. People did strange things then, so salvage a CSL for $5k: I believe it. A CSL, or any E9, is a rare car. Because a car has a salvage title; doesn't mean less in any way in the eye of the buyer who painstakingly restores his car his way.

That someone would sell a car to finance a new project or just plain needed the money? Yep. Done it many times and didn't like it that much, later.

May we all be so be so lucky in the future? I hope so. We have a great site and great people who without them we'd all be scratching our heads a little bit longer.

Here's a suggestion- yeah we need to start a box- marketwatch. Once every 3-6 months we report sales that we know about and someone track them with a brief description. We could rotate models, so everyone had a chance to be involved.

61Porsche

 

[craterface]

61 Porsche
The market watch idea sounds like a good one. Verde's recent thread, "what is your coupe worth", is helpful to that end.

RonP and Fjord 3.0
I agree that the association with Evan was just speculation, and people posted without the facts. On the other hand, if you do not want people to pick apart a car you have for sale, do not post it anywhere on the internet. Otherwise, bored members of this site, such as myself, who should be working right now, will check it out and post something about it. Many of us bought our cars from an internet posting (myself included) and will do it again, so it is a great marketing tool, but you have to take the good with the bad.

 

[coupe2800cs]

67 Shelby GT500

It's still a Shelby, try pricing a 67 Shelby GT500 lately.... complete or not... That CSL is a nice car appears very good shape ' city package ' I would buy this over a new M3 or M5 any day!!!

 

[chicane]

If I sound bitter about this car, I am. I didn't want my car on this forum since I have already had my experiences with this group and none of them have been good, but the car made it here anyway, which after your usual bashings, I had to ask the moderators to remove the thread. The asshat comments cost me a potential sale on the car that I had been working on for two years!!!! This cost me a ton of money and I don't appreciate it at all.

I would be really interested to know how exactly an internet thread cost you a sale. If the car was all that and at a respectable price it would have sold already. The voices here are the voices of the market and they tend to know the product that they speak about.

Some of you should really (I know it's hard) think before you hit the keyboard about what you are saying.

See below.

My partner and I found another car (2275015) which has much better provinence and we purchased the car from the original owner.

It's: Provenance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provenance

I don't understand why the moderators allow things like this to happen, as it isn't allowed on most public BMW forums. It is pretty pathetic, and the folks who take part in it should not be allowed to do so.

Because it is a public forum and potential buyers and hobbyists glean useful info from these threads. Don't like it, don't post your car for sale on the internet.

My .02FWIW

Which is exactly about what your opinion is worth....

 

[Stevehose]

It's a nice looking car, what doesnt make sense to me is why a bunch of people would bid it up so high only 2 days into it.

 

[kladd]

about 8 years ago i started bidding on a csl on ebay.

nowadays ebay auctions are more private, but back then you could send messages to bidders of merchandise you had no direct involvement with. i had MULTIPLE people interjecting themselves in the process. one told me the seller was not the owner of the car, was a crook, and he could get me the car cheaper and safer. another told me the car was a piece of crap and he had a better car for sale. there was probably more noise but those are the personalities i remember. it was crazy.

at the same time people on this site were bashing the car. wrong bits, rust problems, etc.

i can absolutely understand how a potential buyer could walk away from a deal with all the negativity and shenanigans.

end result i bought the car. people i know whose opinion i respect tell me it was a homerun deal.

from that experience i take everything i hear from people whose identity i dont know with a grain of salt. i think there is a vast sea of read-only visitors of this site who agree.

i am kevin ladd from massachusetts and i still proudly own 2275268.

 

[dp]

It's a nice looking car, what doesnt make sense to me is why a bunch of people would bid it up so high only 2 days into it.

Because there is no trace-ability or accountability in that marketplace (eBay) and it is often a playground for folks whose freedom to bid anonymously requires no accountability to the auction house, or any tangible obligation to the seller?

-or-

Because at least 50% of the bidders would never bid if their bidding history were made public (like in the "old days" of eBay) ? IMO it'd be seen that the most prolific bidders for any special interest cars on the eBay venue are current owners and often regular traders of those special-interest cars, and they seldom if ever buy them there!

eBay "sale prices" increased dramatically when they turned eBay motors over to professional auto dealers and incorporated their ideas into the entire eBay format ("anonymous bidding") ... which f****d up a lot of different collector and enthusiast hobbies big time for a lot of unsuspecting people.

Get this though, the joke's on the stealers. Obama's administration has compelled eBay to start filing 1099's for cumulative "sales" over 10k/year. Treasury has a lot of low-level new federal employees who have a mandate to earn their keep through collections. HA! I guess maybe "hope IS on the way" ;-) ... for the broke proletariat (ramen-eating trailer trash magazine-buying Bavaria-driving dreamers)

One last salvo, the prime reason people who do cars for a living complain about treatment on a forum like this one is because they cannot manipulate it to their own interests. "waa"! Reputable business people don't need to whine publicly when they're bashed, they act reputably, and amazingly, they don't get bashed! And any sarcastic bourgeois "enthusiast wanna-be" who'd also publicly belittle people who may "never even own" an L will...NEVER meet their aspirations in the same pond they crap in.

 

[eastsideM3]

There are a few jokers on here that seem to comment on every car for sale, and have little to zero knowledge of the "real" CSL market. Whether you think it or not, the E9 community is very small, and just about all of us read this forum, or refer to it for information, especially the US crowd, so it doesnt put a potential buyer in a good state of mind when some moron is saying the car is overpriced, or its never going to appreciate in value when they have no clue what they're talking about, or making senseless comparisons.
This car is fetching good money for a city pack car. Im sure one forum member is ****ting in his pants about now, as Im sure he pegged this car to be worth about 15K!

 

[chicane]

There are a few jokers on here that seem to comment on every car for sale, and have little to zero knowledge of the "real" CSL market.

 

[chicane]

one last salvo, the prime reason people who do cars for a living complain about treatment on a forum like this one is because they cannot manipulate it to their own interests. "waa"! Reputable business people don't need to whine publicly when they're bashed, they act reputably, and amazingly, they don't get bashed! And any sarcastic bourgeois "enthusiast wanna-be" who'd also publicly belittle people who may "never even own" an l will...never meet their aspirations in the same pond they crap in.

this ^^^.

 

[JFENG]

Recent Auction results suggest non-BAT CSL's are worth $50k

For me there are 2 markets, Auction & Private Sales.

The only one that's I can easily search are auctions. There are 2 types of cars that typically show up at auctions. Examples that have problems which prevent them from being easily sold via a reputable dealer and outstanding examples that have the potential to bring in a really big bid from a well heeled collector.

A quick check of scm's auction results indicates auction sales of CSL's are in the $100k territory for true BAT's, $45k for 'normal' CSL's and <$20k for plain old CSi's and CS's.

Personally, I agree that these cars ought to be worth a LOT more, but the market says they were not important enough to the evolution of the industry to have top collectability In contrast, the Jag E-type inspired a dramatic shift in styling across multiple respected sports car makers and helped kick off a rush of really great GT's during the 1960's. Mustangs invented the affordable sports GT category in the USA, MGA's were the sports car that turned many of our fathers onto British sports cars. 2002tii's established BMW as the premier sports sedan marque. What did the E9 inspire other than the 6 series and the M1?

I hope to be in possession of a nice CSi or grungy CSL pretty soon, but of all the old cars I have, I'm least optimistic about appreciation for the E9.

John

 

[craterface]

Thanks for the data on the CSL auctions. Let it be said, though, that RHD CSLs are not as valuable as LHD. I assume some of these cars sold in the UK were RHD. There were 500 RHD CSLs, I believe, and that is almost half of total production. Good, dry, LHD CSLs are worth more than 50K. Recent BAT sales (LHD) in Monaco and last summer in Pebble Beach were 100-200K+ USD. A Taiga green #1 BAT sold for 150K in Pebble Beach last summer. These truly rare cars have more to go, I think.

 

[CookeD]

What did the E9 inspire other than the 6 series and the M1?

Well, technically the E9 launched BMW Motorsport, which is essentially BMW's brand identity.

 

[JFENG]

Yes, but ...

The CSL did launch what became the M-division. And it's much rarer than the normal CS's, hence the 2x to 10x premium over normal CS's. The monaco car looked like a #1 batwing and the price seemed 'fair' to me.

The bat-wing CSL's are obviously much appreciated by the market, but the non-bat CSL's are worth the same as a clean run-of-the-mill Jaguar E-type FHC (of which there must be at least 3x or 4x as many floating around).

Which, as I said, leaves all these gorgeous, wonderful non-CSL's, worth a lot less that we'd like. Personally, give me a 3.0CSi over a 911T or 911S anyday.

Maybe part of the low value stems from the fact that BMW has been too successful ... to the point where "everyone has a BMW." It's just not as special a marque as it once was and as are Porsche, Maserati, Ferrari, Aston, etc. Just on my 1 neighborhood block alone, I think the majority of garages contain a BMW, Audi/Mercedes run a close second, but not a single Jaguar or Maserati Qp.

John

 

[OCCoupe]

Well, technically the E9 launched BMW Motorsport, which is essentially BMW's brand identity.

I don't think BMW sees it this way,(Don't blow my head off). I was in a meeting with Torsten Müller-Ötvös who re-launched the Mini brand and is now CEO of Rolls-Royce Motor Cars, this was February of this year. There was a discussion about the M Division of BMW, I mentioned that it was my understanding that the CSL was essentially the first or start of the M cars. His answer was that the M1 was the car that launched the M Division and that the CSL was just a homogenized CS or CSI. I was a bit dumbfounded by this remark and am not convinced he is right.

Mike

 

[eastsideM3]

The M1 was the first official motorsport car technically speaking. The CSL project was handed over to Alpina for development. I tend to think the 2002 turbo was the first inhouse non badged motorsports car?

 

[craterface]

Debate rages on...see bringatrailer.com

Our recent spirited debate on the merits of this car has now moved to bringatrailer.com. Now everyone over there is weighing in....

 

[dp]

Guys, the car is what it is, and it isn't what it isn't. Heavy defenders of a photoshopped entre- d' cha-ching notwithstanding, it is simply a clean car that either needs relatively complete dis-assembly and refinishing, or its a presentable driver. Neither of those starting points are worth 50 large, are they?

front & rear inner fenders?
possibly new wings after that?
maybe "a" pillars?
right quarter panel maybe?
rear lower valance?

I seem to recall a lot of very detailed and impressive fotos of this car being posted here last year by the previous owner, and was very impressed at the level of detail and finish of the undercarriage. The paint looks pretty pretty too, but photoshop can make Lily Tomlin as appealing as...well...you get the idea.

Bottom line, you cannot end up with a good bruder Rauchkäse when you use Muenster methods -wink- sadly, most americans don't know the difference!

 

[30csl]

If the british pound werent so weak I'd be keen to bid on this at around $50k. Not hard to rememdy that right rear valance and wing and job done. I also have the correct scheels for it. Damn weak pound - not so long ago everyone was running from the dollar now they cant get enough of it!

 

[dp]

If the british pound werent so weak I'd be keen to bid on this at around $50k. Not hard to rememdy that right rear valance and wing and job done. I also have the correct scheels for it. Damn weak pound - not so long ago everyone was running from the dollar now they cant get enough of it!

!

so you haven't been bidding?