Another BaT Coupe

autokunst said:
I had to look that one up on the Urban Dictionary as I was not familiar with that term. Yes indeed. In my mind, OEM+ falls within my definition of restomod. In other words, a restoration that may have subtle variances from a faithful factory line restoration. I would categorize what I am doing as restomod, but would now also define it as the OEM+ description as well.

I agree that "custom" builds are in a separate category, with separate proponents. I often think that a custom project car is only/most loved by the person/shop who did the work. As I say in my architectural world, just because if can be done doesn't mean it should be done. ;)
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You have restored my youth! Needed that on a Monday morning. I think custom is out unless you are at SEMA. Restomod is the new custom.

OEM+
OEM+ stand for "Original Equipment Manufacturer +".

This term originally comes from the automotive world to describe the customization of a car in a subtle way, (mainly) using parts and accessories from the same manufacturer or the same group (Using Audi parts on a Volkswagen for example) . More generally it means customize a car very discreetly, with a close look to the original, playing on the details. In contrast of tuning and its extravagance.

_ Wow, never seen a VW Golf so clean! Does it come from the factory like this?

_ Well almost, it's OEM+. Just changed a few details to enhance the original look.
 
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Yeah generally when I hear the term restomod, i begin to throw up in my mouth a little bit. And i'm hardly a purist, I put digital adjustable air ride on my coupe with 18" wheels.

I remember I was selling a coupe once and a guy looking at it told me he wanted to put brushed stainless in place of the veneer. I wanted to grab the keys and run inside the house. Haha
 
On a car of this expense and quality I wish they had invited Burger or Macha or ... to visit for a day to clean up the details. The "bones" sure look good.
 
autokunst said:
I think there is a relevant distinction between a faithful restoration and a custom restoration, or restomod. Both would potentially correct chassis issues. Both would potentially make the vehicle safe and fun to drive. I'd argue that a customized, or modified restoration may provide a better driving, higher performing, and/or more reliable vehicle. But the deviation from what the "factory did" is recognizable. I love that this forum has members that are able to discern these distinctions.

I agree that many buyers will love and appreciate this car because it is beautiful, reasonably well done, and should be a joy to drive. But I also agree that it should not represent a new standard for e9 restorations - that discipline (which is probably about 1% of the examples) would require more attention to original details as others have noted above.
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Yes, there is a relevant distinction between a restoration and restomod, and it's obvious this car falls into the restomod category as the aim/goal obviously hasn't been to restore back to stock.
What I don't understand is why some would treat it like they tried to do a restoration.
The standard has to be set by the owner of the car, it's all about having fun and actually beeing able to finish the project, if it's at a hobby level.

If I put $100k-$200k on a full blown restoration, would I be happy? Totally depends on what my purpose for the car is, as a show car, sure. As a driver which likely will get dinged, scratched and maybe even totaled, nope.

But I have nothing, at all, against those who have the energy, skills, knowledge, money, time, etc. etc. to do so, I like all kinds of restorations/restomods and can spend hours and hours going through build threads.
Still, as soon as a car like this hits the forum, it gets a lot of critic just because it isn't perfect.. I think there should be allowed more room and acceptance for the non-perfect coupes.

I can say that I would never have dared to start my build thread if I started with my DIY project today, after I've been reading here for several years.

EDIT:
Just to add, I've never recieved any critic for my build, all response have been positive, so it's not that I'm saying. I'm just thinking that we could maybe have more build threads of medium-level cars if there were less nitpicking going on.

Markos said:
Good to hear you say that. This car reminds me a lot of your restoration, particularly the plates underbody bits.
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There are similarities, for sure! I do it just because I think it's fun and as a hobby, but to get every last detail correct is not _that_ fun IMO. And I think others might agree.
 
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floridabmx said:
Yeah generally when I hear the term restomod, i begin to throw up in my mouth a little bit.
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Wow, this is fascinating. Evidently I was living under a rock or something, because to me the term restomod had no negative connotations in and of itself. There is bad work in any "category", but I didn't realize that so many were reactive to this term. Honestly, I feel like OEM+ sounds like a made up term to allow people with European cars to feel superior to people with an old domestic car. ;) But the term is new to me, and I need to let my palette adjust. From what I am reading, I am doing OEM+ work, so I better get in bed with it- ha ha. Thanks for teaching me a hip new term.

Couldn't agree more that brushed stainless in lieu of the veneer would "customize" a coupe in a way that doesn't fit my personal tastes.
 
The problem I have with the BaT coupe has nothing to due with the obvious level of skill and workmanship that went into its rejuvenation, but with the very public, mouth agape reaction cars like this receive on the Internet. Its wonderfully-executed and a real head turner, so it therefore must/should be correct and set the standard for all future efforts! Yes, its a great restomod, but its not factory-correct. Every single coupe that loses its originality by virtue of a "restoration" like this one just means that the historical record is further diminished. Sure, you can travel to Munich and photo document the e9s in the BMW collection, or you can send your car to BMW and they'll gladly oblige your open wallet and return to you a factory-correct effort, but if you're intent on either doing it yourself or having someone do it for you without the benefit of an archetype example, it will be an uphill struggle. Again, only a problem if you know and understand the difference (and care) between factory-correct/OEM and anything else...
 
NewSixCoupe said:
The problem I have with the BaT coupe has nothing to due with the obvious level of skill and workmanship that went into its rejuvenation, but with the very public, mouth agape reaction cars like this receive on the Internet. Its wonderfully-executed and a real head turner, so it therefore must/should be correct and set the standard for all future efforts! Yes, its a great restomod, but its not factory-correct. Every single coupe that loses its originality by virtue of a "restoration" like this one just means that the historical record is further diminished. Sure, you can travel to Munich and photo document the e9s in the BMW collection, or you can send your car to BMW and they'll gladly oblige your open wallet and return to you a factory-correct effort, but if you're intent on either doing it yourself or having someone do it for you without the benefit of an archetype example, it will be an uphill struggle. Again, only a problem if you know and understand the difference (and care) between factory-correct/OEM and anything else...
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I agree 100%, it’s a very nice restoration but the details and attention to those details is missing. It will command a healthy price but I bet it doesn’t meet reserve, based on what the owner likely spent on it.
 
autokunst said:
Wow, this is fascinating. Evidently I was living under a rock or something, because to me the term restomod had no negative connotations in and of itself. There is bad work in any "category", but I didn't realize that so many were reactive to this term. Honestly, I feel like OEM+ sounds like a made up term to allow people with European cars to feel superior to people with an old domestic car. ;) But the term is new to me, and I need to let my palette adjust. From what I am reading, I am doing OEM+ work, so I better get in bed with it- ha ha. Thanks for teaching me a hip new term.

Couldn't agree more that brushed stainless in lieu of the veneer would "customize" a coupe in a way that doesn't fit my personal tastes.
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Oh trust me, nothing wrong with it. It just depends on builders taste. For example a restomod 356... Rod Emory's take, yes. Chip Foose, no.
 
NewSixCoupe said:
The problem I have with the BaT coupe has nothing to due with the obvious level of skill and workmanship that went into its rejuvenation, but with the very public, mouth agape reaction cars like this receive on the Internet. Its wonderfully-executed and a real head turner, so it therefore must/should be correct and set the standard for all future efforts! Yes, its a great restomod, but its not factory-correct. Every single coupe that loses its originality by virtue of a "restoration" like this one just means that the historical record is further diminished. Sure, you can travel to Munich and photo document the e9s in the BMW collection, or you can send your car to BMW and they'll gladly oblige your open wallet and return to you a factory-correct effort, but if you're intent on either doing it yourself or having someone do it for you without the benefit of an archetype example, it will be an uphill struggle. Again, only a problem if you know and understand the difference (and care) between factory-correct/OEM and anything else...
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Yes, I see your point.
But still, it's not like a CS is a super rare car, and I can't agree that any owner of a CS should feel or be obligated to return them to factory spec if they choose to "restore" it.
Can't see why it would have to be totally correct and set any standards just because it catches attention/reactions on the internet either.
Imagine how many e9s would have met their grave if people would have felt they needed to do a factory restoration just to keep them on the road.
But with CSLs its another story, even I feel a bit bad when I see a modded CSL.
 
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autokunst said:
Honestly, I feel like OEM+ sounds like a made up term to allow people with European cars to feel superior to people with an old domestic car. ;) But the term is new to me, and I need to let my palette adjust. From what I am reading, I am doing OEM+ work, so I better get in bed with it- ha ha. Thanks for teaching me a hip new term.
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Really though shared-platform domestics are ripe for OEM+ modifications. Think of all the low-end american iron that share all the same parts and bolt patterns with their more sophisticated older brothers.

Since you and I were talking Cherokees as of late, my XJ had a radio from a ZJ, KJ rear discs (although ZJ swaps are common), and a 160a alternator from a 5.9 Durango.
 
I agree, this is an interesting thread. So under this new standard my 3.5l, five-speed, 16" BBS shod coupe is OEM+ rather than a restomod, since it uses "brand-correct" upgrades? But a small block Chevy, or air-ride, or stainless steel trim where veneer belongs, takes it into restomod territory? Since the distinctions are so thin, where even the source of the parts can affect the category, I think we may have to consider intent. Was the intent to make it more drivable, more comfortable, to simply introduce some modern conveniences, or was it to "reinterpret" the car, adding or modifying to create the owner's vision of what the car should be? To me, intent is the key.

Then we come to this car, which to my eye is an attempt to return the car to its original state. Yes, there are incorrect parts, and non-standard solutions, but I don't believe these were done to "improve" on the original; it seems they are more related to the builder's knowledge and willingness to do the research to find the right part or reference. This doesn't seem to be OEM+ or restomod, but simply a restoration with some errors in accuracy.
 
Dohn said:
I agree, this is an interesting thread. So under this new standard my 3.5l, five-speed, 16" BBS shod coupe is OEM+ rather than a restomod, since it uses "brand-correct" upgrades? But a small block Chevy, or air-ride, or stainless steel trim where veneer belongs, takes it into restomod territory? Since the distinctions are so thin, where even the source of the parts can affect the category, I think we may have to consider intent. Was the intent to make it more drivable, more comfortable, to simply introduce some modern conveniences, or was it to "reinterpret" the car, adding or modifying to create the owner's vision of what the car should be? To me, intent is the key.
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It probably isn’t your intent to snicker at a “new” term, but I feel like OEM+ was a needed clarification in the tuning world. It isn’t uncommon to see custom metal work and completely reworked suspensions (IFS/IRS) on Restomod domestics.

I would say that the 450hp polaris 2800CS that was listed recently is custom. The middle eastern Ceylon car with all of the extra bumpers and lights is custom. Gogoout’s Ford Wincer car is custom. I think that although there is some serious homage being played with @OLD_DTM ’s car, it is also custom. His exhaust is 12” long and shoots from the “hood”. :)

@Layne has a restomod car, as does @ALANGARCH. I’m no expert on the terminology, but adding significantly newer technology (such as an S38) to an existing platform puts it into the restomod category. I’m not sure where @floridabmx stands with his car. It’s pretty original with exception to the very reversible suspension and wheels. It is just stanced (for lack of a better or hipper term).

This is hard...

@HB Chris and @OCCoupe have OEM+ cars IMO. Both have motor swaps but the tech is mostly the same (fuel injection aside). They look and feel
original, just better bits. There are many other OEM+ cars but they aren’t necessarily restorations. Most of the cars that I know of in Seattle fall under this category IMO. The only local cars that I have seen that are absolute original belong to a single member. ;)
 
What's cool is "resotmods" are still commanding good money if DONE RIGHT! Look at that backdated 911 that went for >$200k on BAT last week!

To me, a done right restomod E9 would be:

- 3.5L engine w/EFI or triple Webers, or S38
- 5 speed
- sanden, R134 AC retrofit
- Recaro or equiv seats but with OEM seat pattern
- front CSL or 635-style spoiler
- suspension updates (CN or coilovers)
- BBS or Alpina wheels
- tasteful wood trim

You couldn't get away w/the above on a Alfa GTV or Merc 280 SL or SE, but thankfully on BMWs an Porsches, done right, can almost get your money back.
 
OEM + has been a saying in the late model tuning world for a long time. But its more common with the new car guys chasing check engine lights who put maybe a larger OEM wheel on with a tune and exhaust.

You only hear resto-mod with vintage and classics obviously and that term would generally always suit an engine swap mainly converting to fuel injection or more modern bucket seats adding AC etc.

I generally hate the term resto mod because when I think of one I will immediately picture brushed metal trim in place of veneer, some gaudy e36 vader seats, 17" style 5's, and a V8 M engine.

As for my car, I hate the word stanced. Because everything has to have a stance. Granted I think stock e9's have a stance like a cat standing in water, although everything else on a e9 comes perfect IMO, unless it has US DOT bastardized bumpers and redundant side markers. But theres not much more I want to do to my car in the long run mechanically besides adding another carb, gear, and maybe LSD.
 
Big issue here is this was not restored by a big-name player ie: Korman, VSR, SFDon, etc....& this is not a club you can talk your way into.

These old BMW's have a steep learning curve & the best of us know that.

I for one think times have changed so much & BMW does not really back their product so deviations from 100% OE stock is to be expected if not embraced in certain scenarios.

Just me .02 cents,

Mo
 
teahead said:
You couldn't get away w/the above on a Alfa GTV or Merc 280 SL or SE, but thankfully on BMWs an Porsches, done right, can almost get your money back.
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Agree, same with old RWD Volvos. My car is probably worth 1/3 what I have in it, I learned a ton building it though!

Next car I want to remain stock, the full build/everything custom is too much..
 
Great context! I always appreciate your perspective! I figured the stanced comment would make your skin crawl but I simply lack an appropriate term.

I should have noted that the term OEM+ has a target on its back but it is such a fitting term IMO. Restomod is all over the board at the moment.

floridabmx said:
OEM + has been a saying in the late model tuning world for a long time. But its more common with the new car guys chasing check engine lights who put maybe a larger OEM wheel on with a tune and exhaust.

You only hear resto-mod with vintage and classics obviously and that term would generally always suit an engine swap mainly converting to fuel injection or more modern bucket seats adding AC etc.

I generally hate the term resto mod because when I think of one I will immediately picture brushed metal trim in place of veneer, some gaudy e36 vader seats, 17" style 5's, and a V8 M engine.

As for my car, I hate the word stanced. Because everything has to have a stance. Granted I think stock e9's have a stance like a cat standing in water, although everything else on a e9 comes perfect IMO, unless it has US DOT bastardized bumpers and redundant side markers. But theres not much more I want to do to my car in the long run mechanically besides adding another carb, gear, and maybe LSD.
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After my little rant yesterday I just wanted to say that what’s great about this forum is that we all can discuss these, sometimes sensitive, things without it getting out of hand:)

Interesting discussion!
 
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