A long time ago I had a Bavaria I switched over from manual to power steering. As I recall I think I missed the feel of the manual and probably enjoyed the boost of the power steering to deal with general driving. Not sure which is nicer on a Coupe. Have you switched over (Either to or from power steering) and how do you like it? If I was to go manual, what is the best ratio to live with? My car has a 16 inch staggered tire setup.
Anyone had both manual and power steering on their Coupes?
- Thread starter Nicad
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If you are driving/ parking around town, then ps is far more comfortable specially with 205/55/16” upfront (quite different to 195/70/14’s) with manual box (I have the same setup) it’s quite a tough one from 0-5 kmph after which it’s just great. Far better feedback than with the antiquated ps system used in the E9’s. As you pointed out, you have to have extensively driven both versions to make a qualified recommendation.
If you keep the ps try changing the steering coupler to a polyurathene one, maybe also the front Suspension bushings, again with polyurethane and you’ll feel a dramatic difference with it all feeling a lot tighter.
Ireland Engineering has a huge assortment of polyurethane bushings for the E9 and the more you replace, the tighter the whole steering/ suspension feels. Engine mounts, transmission mounts, suspension bushings.........
Some folks have said that it’s all a bit too harsh for daily drives, I think it makes all the difference, positively speaking.
As far as manual box ratios are concerned, the only one likely to be found has a 16.4:1 ratio, as you had in your Bavaria. Thats also the one used in street Csl’s. Theres a longer one which was in some of the Euro 2.5CS (19.1:1) but finding one of those will be difficult, apart from wanting a tighter ratio which the E3/ E9’s had.
And ofcourse, there are surely more opinions that will follow.....
Keshav
If you keep the ps try changing the steering coupler to a polyurathene one, maybe also the front Suspension bushings, again with polyurethane and you’ll feel a dramatic difference with it all feeling a lot tighter.
Ireland Engineering has a huge assortment of polyurethane bushings for the E9 and the more you replace, the tighter the whole steering/ suspension feels. Engine mounts, transmission mounts, suspension bushings.........
Some folks have said that it’s all a bit too harsh for daily drives, I think it makes all the difference, positively speaking.
As far as manual box ratios are concerned, the only one likely to be found has a 16.4:1 ratio, as you had in your Bavaria. Thats also the one used in street Csl’s. Theres a longer one which was in some of the Euro 2.5CS (19.1:1) but finding one of those will be difficult, apart from wanting a tighter ratio which the E3/ E9’s had.
And ofcourse, there are surely more opinions that will follow.....
Keshav
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It is personal preference IMO. Personally, I have never had any concerns or issues with manual steering cars. I daily drove cars with manual steering for close 15 years. My e9 has power steering, but I cut the belt off because it was squeeling. Not ideal but it isn’t worth me investigating the issue on a car that I rarely drive and intend to disassemble. I’m not parallel parking the thing, but I haven’t been above 40mph in it either. That is with 235’s up front. I can turn the wheel just fine. Parking lots and or parallel parking is the only time your effort changes with manual steering.
Also arm strength does play a role. I’m sure that my wife would struggle with the car. I’m only “dad strong”. I don’t work out.
Also arm strength does play a role. I’m sure that my wife would struggle with the car. I’m only “dad strong”. I don’t work out.
I haven’t come across a rebuilt one, I don’t think they need it unless they have multi hundreds of thousand miles....
A Bavaria manual box is ideal, ideally along with its original steering rod which is longer than the ones used with power steering boxes.
A Bavaria manual box is ideal, ideally along with its original steering rod which is longer than the ones used with power steering boxes.
pmansson
Well-Known Member
The problem with both ps and manual steering boxes is that the central, grooved part can wear at the straight ahead position. The resulting play cannot be cured by tightening the adjustment screw on top.
So a low mileage box is better than a worn one. Trial snd error will reveal good boxes from bad ones.
So a low mileage box is better than a worn one. Trial snd error will reveal good boxes from bad ones.
They do in Europe.... every so often but with seriously fluctuating prices. Here’s one...wonder what he consumes expecting such prices! He claims its a short version, in fact it’s the same as all manual (steering boxes) that E3’s have too. I bought one the other day for wayyyyy less.....
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Maybe the E3 crowd should be asked for them....best chance there.
I was seriously considering changing my PS over to manual, in the interest of getting 'light' as possible. I even had a manual steering box (E3 unit) on the shelf. Then I borrowed a friend's coupe with a manual box conversion....and decided to abort the idea. The 50lbs saved was not worth the project hassel, expense and end result (for me).
Finding a machine shop that would modify/shorten the existing steering column (shorten 50mm? IRCC) proved difficult for their liability reasons, many wouldn't touch it. Your wheel/tire size and steering wheel size will have a lot to do with the slow speed maneuvering (friend's car had a small M1 wheel 330-320mm? and staggered 16" Alpinas with meats). I found it very laborious in urban traffic, U/3pt turns and parking sucked. I was quite accustomed the PS's casual usability in everyday use and had vintage competition/track experience with it and have no issues. Felt great to me. I run a 350mm wheel with 14" & 15" wheels, no stagger.
I agree with Keshav in that using the IE poly bushings EVERYWHERE in addition suspension mods (I run IE's coilovers w Bilstiens) will turn 'Das Boat into a far more precise vessel. That and a good diet, E9s are inherently not light.
I have 14yrs/60+k miles with my set up and wont change a thing..... negotiating parking lots with one figure after driving in anger ..Jeckel & Hyde.
Just my 2 cents and HTH.
Finding a machine shop that would modify/shorten the existing steering column (shorten 50mm? IRCC) proved difficult for their liability reasons, many wouldn't touch it. Your wheel/tire size and steering wheel size will have a lot to do with the slow speed maneuvering (friend's car had a small M1 wheel 330-320mm? and staggered 16" Alpinas with meats). I found it very laborious in urban traffic, U/3pt turns and parking sucked. I was quite accustomed the PS's casual usability in everyday use and had vintage competition/track experience with it and have no issues. Felt great to me. I run a 350mm wheel with 14" & 15" wheels, no stagger.
I agree with Keshav in that using the IE poly bushings EVERYWHERE in addition suspension mods (I run IE's coilovers w Bilstiens) will turn 'Das Boat into a far more precise vessel. That and a good diet, E9s are inherently not light.
I have 14yrs/60+k miles with my set up and wont change a thing..... negotiating parking lots with one figure after driving in anger ..Jeckel & Hyde.
Just my 2 cents and HTH.
I'm very interested in doing this mod for my coupe, just need to find the right person with the right machinery to make a pair of longer, solid, arms from scratch.
e9coupe.com
Rally drivers secret !
hi all, as i see more members complain the indirect steering issues we have with the steering box , almost impossible to convert to rack&pinion , i want to share something we do for more direct steering feel . Ofcouse the steering wheel force becomes a bit harder but the car steers so much...
e9coupe.com
Agree..... it’s really all about the weight saving, but if that’s not consequently followed and you aren’t ‘daddy strong’ or stronger, it’s a PIA to be maneuvering around town etc, more so with big tires. If you have AC in your car, then this change is quite senseless, weight wise.
Basically, it was was those buyers who didn’t want to pay/ buy the PS premium price and for the light weight Csl’s.
I drove mine without the belt on once and that was enough to convince me to stay with PS. Too much city driving and Starbucks parking lots for me.