Automatic to 5 speed question
- Thread starter tmason
- Start date
x_atlas0
Well-Known Member
Ballpark for which solution, exactly? Parts? Having a shop do it? Having one of the E9 specialists do it? The costs vary significantly.
auto to 5-speed
I just finished my swap. I couldn't find a transmission on the east coast so paid to have a transmission from a 633CSI, along with bell housing, flywheel, clutch stuff, and shifter, removed and shipped from California. That was a grand. If you find a transmission close to you it should cut the cost in half. The driveshaft modification cost about $500. Once you get pedals, master cylinder, reservour, etc. that will probably add another $500. Plus, I rented a transmission jack to drop the auto and you will probably find other things that need done. So, figure between $1,500 and $2,500. I did all of the work myself over period stretching out over maybe a month with waiting on various parts to arrive. It isn't a terribly complicated job, but it takes a while, especially working alone. The three page Carl Nelson instructions were invaluable, plus I referred to the blue factory manual a lot. I am guessing that a shop that knows what to do might be able to do the swap in two to three days if they stayed on the job. If you know the shop rate in your area you can do the math.
Now if the @#!!** paint shop would finish my wheels I might actually drive the car and find out if I have more work to do on the transmission swap.
Good luck!
I just finished my swap. I couldn't find a transmission on the east coast so paid to have a transmission from a 633CSI, along with bell housing, flywheel, clutch stuff, and shifter, removed and shipped from California. That was a grand. If you find a transmission close to you it should cut the cost in half. The driveshaft modification cost about $500. Once you get pedals, master cylinder, reservour, etc. that will probably add another $500. Plus, I rented a transmission jack to drop the auto and you will probably find other things that need done. So, figure between $1,500 and $2,500. I did all of the work myself over period stretching out over maybe a month with waiting on various parts to arrive. It isn't a terribly complicated job, but it takes a while, especially working alone. The three page Carl Nelson instructions were invaluable, plus I referred to the blue factory manual a lot. I am guessing that a shop that knows what to do might be able to do the swap in two to three days if they stayed on the job. If you know the shop rate in your area you can do the math.
Now if the @#!!** paint shop would finish my wheels I might actually drive the car and find out if I have more work to do on the transmission swap.
Good luck!
Don't forget the TO bearing, the pilot bearing. pressure plate and clutch disc.
About 400.00 bucks.
Shortened driveshaft cost is only good if the u-joints are good and damn few are good after 40 years.
About 400.00 bucks
Anyone who installs a 30 year old tranny w/o replacing the 3 seals in the tranny AND the rear crank seal is sadly mistaken. Tranny, seals, and fluids and short shift kit-
About 400.00 bucks
Master, slave, fluid, hose, shift console, guibo, nuts to diff and output flange, tranny support, heat shield, tranny rubber mount, center bearing, reverse switch.
About 400.00 bucks
Labor to do all that- 800.00 bucks.
I did 5 conversions this year for 2500 bucks...
Next year my price will be 3000.00
About 400.00 bucks.
Shortened driveshaft cost is only good if the u-joints are good and damn few are good after 40 years.
About 400.00 bucks
Anyone who installs a 30 year old tranny w/o replacing the 3 seals in the tranny AND the rear crank seal is sadly mistaken. Tranny, seals, and fluids and short shift kit-
About 400.00 bucks
Master, slave, fluid, hose, shift console, guibo, nuts to diff and output flange, tranny support, heat shield, tranny rubber mount, center bearing, reverse switch.
About 400.00 bucks
Labor to do all that- 800.00 bucks.
I did 5 conversions this year for 2500 bucks...
Next year my price will be 3000.00
steve in reno
Well-Known Member
Tim
I did a 4 to 5 speed conversion and it really isn't that hard.
Since you are converting from an auto there are just a few extra parts to purchase.
Your d-shaft won't have to be shortened.
steve
I did a 4 to 5 speed conversion and it really isn't that hard.
Since you are converting from an auto there are just a few extra parts to purchase.
Your d-shaft won't have to be shortened.
steve
Driveshaft length
The Carl Nelson instructions specify lengthening the driveshaft 3/4" when going from auto to 5-speed. I have seen suggestions that the stock automatic driveshaft can be used with 5-speed, but based on what I observed when I made the swap the splines at the center support bearing will be extended a long way, so I think the Carl Nelson recommendation is correct.
The Carl Nelson instructions specify lengthening the driveshaft 3/4" when going from auto to 5-speed. I have seen suggestions that the stock automatic driveshaft can be used with 5-speed, but based on what I observed when I made the swap the splines at the center support bearing will be extended a long way, so I think the Carl Nelson recommendation is correct.
Peter S. also follows the same path as Carl, he feels the auto D/S is too short.
steve in reno
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected.
I personally had to shorten mine.
Shows what I know!
steve
I personally had to shorten mine.
Shows what I know!
steve
Shorten??? Wait a minute ....
You shorten a driveshaft when you go from a 4 speed to a 5 speed.
Your drive shaft is too short when you go from an auto to a 5 speed- Carl recommends lengthening it 3/4". I use the extra long output flange [1 3/4"] to avoid that expense. The goal is to delete the "grenading guibo" and use the M5 reinforced guibo while not spending a penny at the driveshaft shop.
You shorten a driveshaft when you go from a 4 speed to a 5 speed.
Your drive shaft is too short when you go from an auto to a 5 speed- Carl recommends lengthening it 3/4". I use the extra long output flange [1 3/4"] to avoid that expense. The goal is to delete the "grenading guibo" and use the M5 reinforced guibo while not spending a penny at the driveshaft shop.
mark
Well-Known Member
i am collecting parts for this swap, anyone got a part number for the long output flange? thanks.
Bits of info for you...
3 different guibos...
45 mm for the early "grenade" style
30 mm for the e23, e28, e24, style
35mm for the e34 m5 series.
3 different flanges...
25 mm
35 mm
45 mm for the later 260/6 tranny with the fins on the bottom
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=23211228038
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=6874&mospid=47192&btnr=23_0599&hg=23&fg=15
spacers for the flange- I have seen them but never measured one
Hope that helps-
Keep in mind that long flange is 190.00 dealer and 90.00 at Double 02
You really need to pick them at the boneyard.
3 different guibos...
45 mm for the early "grenade" style
30 mm for the e23, e28, e24, style
35mm for the e34 m5 series.
3 different flanges...
25 mm
35 mm
45 mm for the later 260/6 tranny with the fins on the bottom
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=23211228038
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=6874&mospid=47192&btnr=23_0599&hg=23&fg=15
spacers for the flange- I have seen them but never measured one
Hope that helps-
Keep in mind that long flange is 190.00 dealer and 90.00 at Double 02
You really need to pick them at the boneyard.
If you want the budget method this is it.
Haven't done one in 5 years like that.
Always better to rebuild the driveshaft
May have to mod the center bearing slots
Haven't done one in 5 years like that.
Always better to rebuild the driveshaft
May have to mod the center bearing slots
Honolulu
Well-Known Member
When I did mine, I first went from AT to 4-speed. The 4-speed cost me $600 bucks 'cuz a pal's brother and I went halves on a wrecked '80 E12.
Then I got the word there were TWO '81 528i available, "running when parked" and and 5-speed trans in both. I paid $350 for one. It almost started, but I couldn't wait to pull the trans and junk the rest. So I did. The City took the remainder off my driveway fo' free, thanks!
I initially used the clutch from the 4-speed, pedals from a junkyard Bavaria (cheap too), master and slave from the E12. Later put in a new clutch disc and pressure plate. The AT dshaft will fit the 5-speed, as noted above, just lengthen it less then an inch. The clutch was piloted in place using an output shaft from a 2002 trans, the splines set it up quite nicely. Clutch/fluid reservoir from a 2002. Hardest thing to figure out was the neutral safety relay, but I took it out, got it right the first time.
I mentioned using the AT dshaft to Carl Nelson once, inquired if it was good for long. No problem, he said, that's how we usually do them. The splined section is maybe five inches long, 3/4" less contact is insignificant for a stock motor.
I did all my own work including a home-made platform for my trolley jack to lift it into place. Some minor headache getting the splines to line up; a bit of rotation on the output flange cured that almost immediately.
So it is possible to do the work yourself for under a grand. Some luck is useful; some patience; the usual assortment of common tools. Most are advised that it's an expensive major job, but really it's not so difficult on the mechanical side if you have the bits together and are moderately handy.
BTW, the Search function would have turned up the procedure and lots of discussion about this. We've been through it time and again. I have to say that E12s are not that commonly parted out nowadays.
Then I got the word there were TWO '81 528i available, "running when parked" and and 5-speed trans in both. I paid $350 for one. It almost started, but I couldn't wait to pull the trans and junk the rest. So I did. The City took the remainder off my driveway fo' free, thanks!
I initially used the clutch from the 4-speed, pedals from a junkyard Bavaria (cheap too), master and slave from the E12. Later put in a new clutch disc and pressure plate. The AT dshaft will fit the 5-speed, as noted above, just lengthen it less then an inch. The clutch was piloted in place using an output shaft from a 2002 trans, the splines set it up quite nicely. Clutch/fluid reservoir from a 2002. Hardest thing to figure out was the neutral safety relay, but I took it out, got it right the first time.
I mentioned using the AT dshaft to Carl Nelson once, inquired if it was good for long. No problem, he said, that's how we usually do them. The splined section is maybe five inches long, 3/4" less contact is insignificant for a stock motor.
I did all my own work including a home-made platform for my trolley jack to lift it into place. Some minor headache getting the splines to line up; a bit of rotation on the output flange cured that almost immediately.
So it is possible to do the work yourself for under a grand. Some luck is useful; some patience; the usual assortment of common tools. Most are advised that it's an expensive major job, but really it's not so difficult on the mechanical side if you have the bits together and are moderately handy.
BTW, the Search function would have turned up the procedure and lots of discussion about this. We've been through it time and again. I have to say that E12s are not that commonly parted out nowadays.
Tim, if Don is doing them for 3K drive your car out to him and let him do it! If you don't have a lift in your garage you will spend 3K getting your back straight again. You will probably want to budget about 6K for the complete job though as the parts are getting more expensive every day and on a job like this you are paying more for parts than labor. Just my opinion but you are not that far from SF-
Just to complicate things!
OK, just to complicate things.
I installed the drive shaft / tail shaft, the spline is about 110 mm long. Once installed it only goes in about 35mm leaving 75mm which I believe is too much. Most of the research indicates that the drive shaft needs to be lengthened about ¾” which is only about 20mm, that would mean that the spline would be in about 55mm out of a possible 110 mm (so half way).
So my questions.
1. How much should I get it extended?
2. The drive shaft centre support bearing is about 30 mm short of lining up with the bolt holes on the chassis. Do I buy a wider guibo?
OK, just to complicate things.
I installed the drive shaft / tail shaft, the spline is about 110 mm long. Once installed it only goes in about 35mm leaving 75mm which I believe is too much. Most of the research indicates that the drive shaft needs to be lengthened about ¾” which is only about 20mm, that would mean that the spline would be in about 55mm out of a possible 110 mm (so half way).
So my questions.
1. How much should I get it extended?
2. The drive shaft centre support bearing is about 30 mm short of lining up with the bolt holes on the chassis. Do I buy a wider guibo?
