so how many bats exist and do people turn csl's into bats
does tha work financially?
does tha work financially?
bat vs csl
- Thread starter aearch
- Start date
110 Series 1 Bats, 57 series 2 Bats built. People hang Bat hardware on CS, CSi and non-Bat CSLs all the time but they aren't true Bats.
as Chris says,
110 series one Bats
57 Series two Bats
CSL's
169 Carb cars - all as light as a CSL ever was or as some say "ultra -lightwieghts"
429 LHD CSLs - significant majority are "city pack" cars, a LHD injection car that also had the same lightweight attributes as a Carb car is an extremely rare animal.
500 RHD CSLs - all were "city pack" CSL's
Total 1,265 CSL's of all configurations manufactured. I wonder how many left?
You cannot turn a CSL or CS into a Bat if it didn't leave BMW as such, a Bat is a bat...... but as Chris mentions, many people have added splitters, roof hoop and spoiler on other E9s to make them Bat "replicas". You pays your money and you take your choice, as they say.
110 series one Bats
57 Series two Bats
CSL's
169 Carb cars - all as light as a CSL ever was or as some say "ultra -lightwieghts"
429 LHD CSLs - significant majority are "city pack" cars, a LHD injection car that also had the same lightweight attributes as a Carb car is an extremely rare animal.
500 RHD CSLs - all were "city pack" CSL's
Total 1,265 CSL's of all configurations manufactured. I wonder how many left?
You cannot turn a CSL or CS into a Bat if it didn't leave BMW as such, a Bat is a bat...... but as Chris mentions, many people have added splitters, roof hoop and spoiler on other E9s to make them Bat "replicas". You pays your money and you take your choice, as they say.
MyFemurHurts
Well-Known Member
I love the look of bats, but I couldn't do that to my coupe unless I did a serious restomod. Base 2800cs? Nah. Especially in beige.
AE
So how many real ones are documented remaining
and doesnt the vin tell specify a ture one so you would know what your buying
So how many real ones are documented remaining
and doesnt the vin tell specify a ture one so you would know what your buying
??????
I am sorry aearch, what are you trying to ask in your second line?
As to the real Batmobiles remaining or are you asking about one of the other CSL's ????.........I don't know anybody who knows or would know the correct answer to that question.
If on your second line - are you asking about Vins proving the car is a Batmobile? that may well be the considered and sensible first step, but now the cars are into serious six figures, I would suggest any buyer checks provenance/history and have somebody who knows what they are doing look at the car for them.
Lots of $$$$$ = lots of tricky buggers
I am sorry aearch, what are you trying to ask in your second line?
As to the real Batmobiles remaining or are you asking about one of the other CSL's ????.........I don't know anybody who knows or would know the correct answer to that question.
If on your second line - are you asking about Vins proving the car is a Batmobile? that may well be the considered and sensible first step, but now the cars are into serious six figures, I would suggest any buyer checks provenance/history and have somebody who knows what they are doing look at the car for them.
Lots of $$$$$ = lots of tricky buggers
OK
Right pete
those were the answers
it definately impossible to try to make a fake bat
i guess is wht im saying
and then -- i wonder how many were converted
that would be interesting to me
so its hard to know how many bats are still around?
i saw the barn find post which is truly amazing.
i would guess--- there are still ---one unaccounted for and indeed sitting in a bard.?
Right pete
those were the answers
it definately impossible to try to make a fake bat
i guess is wht im saying
and then -- i wonder how many were converted
that would be interesting to me
so its hard to know how many bats are still around?
i saw the barn find post which is truly amazing.
i would guess--- there are still ---one unaccounted for and indeed sitting in a bard.?
Bruce Wayne can drive a beige 2800cs.
Anyway, I think Alan is considering building a fake Bat and is trying to see if it is possible to get away with it. I say go for it, crime pays.
yep
see my post on here you go
see my post on here you go
Remaining CSLs
Just want to add a small piece of information.
Speaking about remaining CSLs, I can only speak about what I have traced for my small and humble CSL-archive. Other enthusiasts may have more or other CSLs listed.
Statistics of traced CSLs (status 31/01/2016):
73 of 169 Carb (43%)
221 of 429 LHD (52%) including some very few client requests
71 of 110 Bat series I (65%) including client request
36 of 57 Bat series II (63%) including some few client requests
352 of 500 RHD (70%)
20 of 20 race versions (100%)
Interesting conclusions and observations:
1. The carb is the most rare one today (in %)
2. Besides the race version, the RHD is the most traced one today (in %)
3. Thanks to the dramatically increasing of the value over the ten past years, many CSLs have been saved and restored.
4. A real Bat is defined by the VIN (only the 110 + 57 last ones)
5. Some of the last 57 Bats were sold without Bat-kits
6. The complete Bat-kit was sold by BMW as an option (for any E9 car) until end of the 80s. Each part of the Bat-kit was listed with a genuine BMW part-nr.
7. Some few are CKD, broken or parted out
8. Some few has an engine from another CSL
9. At least one CSL-cabrio
10. At least three CSLs with BMW-sunroof (officially not possible - client request?)
11. Some few in custom colours and non-standard options (client request)
12. As many CSL owners are requesting BMW Classic for a Certificate, BMW Classic may have an up-to-date registry of existing CSLs
13. High price paid also for modified CSLs. Given the provenance/history is known. E.g. the series II Bat that BMW sold some years ago (colour changed) and some non-Bats with added Bat-kits sold at different Auctions during the past years.
Cheers
Henric
Just want to add a small piece of information.
Speaking about remaining CSLs, I can only speak about what I have traced for my small and humble CSL-archive. Other enthusiasts may have more or other CSLs listed.
Statistics of traced CSLs (status 31/01/2016):
73 of 169 Carb (43%)
221 of 429 LHD (52%) including some very few client requests
71 of 110 Bat series I (65%) including client request
36 of 57 Bat series II (63%) including some few client requests
352 of 500 RHD (70%)
20 of 20 race versions (100%)
Interesting conclusions and observations:
1. The carb is the most rare one today (in %)
2. Besides the race version, the RHD is the most traced one today (in %)
3. Thanks to the dramatically increasing of the value over the ten past years, many CSLs have been saved and restored.
4. A real Bat is defined by the VIN (only the 110 + 57 last ones)
5. Some of the last 57 Bats were sold without Bat-kits
6. The complete Bat-kit was sold by BMW as an option (for any E9 car) until end of the 80s. Each part of the Bat-kit was listed with a genuine BMW part-nr.
7. Some few are CKD, broken or parted out
8. Some few has an engine from another CSL
9. At least one CSL-cabrio
10. At least three CSLs with BMW-sunroof (officially not possible - client request?)
11. Some few in custom colours and non-standard options (client request)
12. As many CSL owners are requesting BMW Classic for a Certificate, BMW Classic may have an up-to-date registry of existing CSLs
13. High price paid also for modified CSLs. Given the provenance/history is known. E.g. the series II Bat that BMW sold some years ago (colour changed) and some non-Bats with added Bat-kits sold at different Auctions during the past years.
Cheers
Henric
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thats it
thank you
very excellent post
super interesting
thank you
very excellent post
super interesting
RogerB
Well-Known Member
So, the only difference between an equally equipped LHD CSL and a BAT is the last three digits equating to approximately $50K per digit?!!?!?
my understanding is that the Bat had a 3.2L engine and some variation in body panels to support the wing - namely the trunk lid
Neither of the two ever had US/DOT articulated bumpers.
CSLs
Hi Henric,
Your small and humble archive is always impressive my friend.:smile:
The Carb CSL's were always at a disadvantage, not only because the lack of protection in our wonderful cars, which rust at the mere thought water, let alone being driven in it
but being the ultimate lightweights, the racers loved them and I would imagine if you actually looked at street cars left, the number would be significantly less.
The Carb cars are my absolute favorite to drive.......but thats just me.
Hope all is well.
Peter
Hi Henric,
Your small and humble archive is always impressive my friend.:smile:
The Carb CSL's were always at a disadvantage, not only because the lack of protection in our wonderful cars, which rust at the mere thought water, let alone being driven in it
but being the ultimate lightweights, the racers loved them and I would imagine if you actually looked at street cars left, the number would be significantly less. The Carb cars are my absolute favorite to drive.......but thats just me.
Hope all is well.
Peter
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Hi Peter,
Indeed, the carb is a favourite. Remember inspecting one of the CSLs from the famous AMS 24/1972 reportage "Die funf Muskeltiere". It is a really light carb and the good news is that the car is currently undergoing a full resto back to the original GS Tuning version as of 1972.
Everything fine here in mid-Europe except the weather. However, will visiting Miami next week and should be able to wear the summer collection of the M-style clothing from the 80s.
Cheers
Henric
Indeed, the carb is a favourite. Remember inspecting one of the CSLs from the famous AMS 24/1972 reportage "Die funf Muskeltiere". It is a really light carb and the good news is that the car is currently undergoing a full resto back to the original GS Tuning version as of 1972.
Everything fine here in mid-Europe except the weather. However, will visiting Miami next week and should be able to wear the summer collection of the M-style clothing from the 80s.
Cheers
Henric
MyFemurHurts
Well-Known Member
I drive a beige 2800cs. So what you're saying is I'm batman.
I'm batman. I'm the hero E9Coupe deserves.
info
glad i started this topic
its very interesting to learn all this
glad i started this topic
its very interesting to learn all this
Hi Henric
Yes, I had heard that very early CSL is starting to come back to life, with a mutual friend - it will be a fantastic thing to see when he is finished.
Also M-AH 1072 which is a seriously early car is now fully restored after being missing for some 40 years.
This is 2 of what are many- from the early Carb cars that were in fact race cars? Any thoughts on roughly how many of the 73 Carb cars you have in your records, that were original race cars?
The weather is not so good in Seattle as well, last week Arizona was much nicer for me Miami will be fun.
Best
Pete
Yes, I had heard that very early CSL is starting to come back to life, with a mutual friend - it will be a fantastic thing to see when he is finished.
Also M-AH 1072 which is a seriously early car is now fully restored after being missing for some 40 years
. This is 2 of what are many- from the early Carb cars that were in fact race cars? Any thoughts on roughly how many of the 73 Carb cars you have in your records, that were original race cars?
The weather is not so good in Seattle as well, last week Arizona was much nicer for me
Miami will be fun. Best
Pete
Peter,
As regards Carbs delivered to various race-teams or tuners, it's difficult to have a precise figure. However, my estimate would be around 25 carbs. There was a batch of some 10-11 VINs in a sequence of pretty early ones (2211- VIN range). Add some 5-6 B2 S directly delivered to Alpina. GS-Tuning got one (the other GS E9 was a 2800 CS). Schnitzer "Green Monster" was another carb one and perhaps also the Koepchen one. I also think Broadspeed were involved in some 4-5 carb ones.
After being sold as street cars, several more of the carb ones were, at a later stage, converted to race-versions.
Please remember that the 20 BMW werks-race versions had their own VIN range.
Cheers
Henric
PS There was another interesting Schnitzer-tuned CSL, but an early injection. It was called "BMW Schnitzer CSL 3500 Special", resprayed in Dark Green and lived in Germany and Switzerland.
As regards Carbs delivered to various race-teams or tuners, it's difficult to have a precise figure. However, my estimate would be around 25 carbs. There was a batch of some 10-11 VINs in a sequence of pretty early ones (2211- VIN range). Add some 5-6 B2 S directly delivered to Alpina. GS-Tuning got one (the other GS E9 was a 2800 CS). Schnitzer "Green Monster" was another carb one and perhaps also the Koepchen one. I also think Broadspeed were involved in some 4-5 carb ones.
After being sold as street cars, several more of the carb ones were, at a later stage, converted to race-versions.
Please remember that the 20 BMW werks-race versions had their own VIN range.
Cheers
Henric
PS There was another interesting Schnitzer-tuned CSL, but an early injection. It was called "BMW Schnitzer CSL 3500 Special", resprayed in Dark Green and lived in Germany and Switzerland.
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