Beautiful 3.0SI on Facebook. NMNA

[Dick Steinkamp]

As I just posted on the Bavaria auction on BaT - I believe the values of E3’s are going-up fast.

I wish it were so, but I don't see it. The special cars like yours and the recent 3.0S on BaT are exceptions...rightfully so. There just are not enough people lusting after 70s 4 door sedans to make a market for E3s.

Here's BaT sales.

E3

Browse and bid online for the chance to own a BMW E3 at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online.

bringatrailer.com

With the exception of the 3.0S they have been flat for the last 7 years averaging 5-8k

Hagerty Value tool shows the average Bavaria at $7,400 and flat for the last 3 years.

1972 BMW Bavaria Base | Hagerty Valuation Tools

Have you seen the latest 1972 BMW Bavaria values?

www.hagerty.com

They SHOULD be bringing more. They were a milestone car for BMW. Someday maybe the market will wake up, but I don't think it has yet.

 

[AustinOski]

@Dick Steinkamp - We’ll have to agree to disagree. I’m familiar with what you cited. I used it all to negotiate the price on my purchase last year (I believed in it, and it worked!).

I think the change has started to occur in the past year, maybe less. Most of the sales on BaT are for cars in prior years. Hagerty is out of date, since Covid. They don’t use BaT, which I think is a mistake. Those are documented auction sales. No other auctions were occurring for a while. I think the volume of nice cars, type of cars and overall quality are certainly different than eBay.

Looking at the E3 currently for sale on BaT, I think at the early $4,500, it’s already past what it would have sold for a year ago, certainly more than in ‘19 or prior. Given the data you cited, it’s probably a $4k car, if not less. Bondo and torn seats, carpet gone in areas.

But, I think it’ll fetch ten-ish, more than some in better condition just two years ago. That’s 250% more than Hagerty valuation for a #4.

2002’s are same. $35k-$50k for restomods? Crazy. Collectibles, houses, same. Up, up, up.

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

I certainly agree with you on the 2002s and have my fingers crossed that you are correct on E3s.

 

[CSteve]

I smell a correction(read crash) in the entire collectible market. From houses to cars to Howdy Doody puppets. This is beyond absurd. Beyond rational. Think Dutch tulip bulbs.

 

[dang]

I smell a correction(read crash) in the entire collectible market. From houses to cars to Howdy Doody puppets. This is beyond absurd. Beyond rational. Think Dutch tulip bulbs.

I am 100% with you on this. I know nothing about markets and how they're influenced, but in around 2005 my wife and I started talking about getting a rental property in town. It was only talk because it just didn't feel right, but we planned for it. The houses just didn't seem like they were actually worth what they were selling for so we waited. In 2009 we bought a house for less than half of what it was worth in 2005.

This is how it feels now with the classic car market, or at least the coupe market since that's all I really follow. The only thing that feels legit is the values of E3's going up slightly, which I think is in part because E9's have skyrocketed. Unfortunately with E3's, their value was so low for so long that a huge number of them were crushed.

 

[dang]

Here's the link to my FB ad. I added more pictures.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/classic.vintagebmw/permalink/835608763657885/

If you post your ad in the regular facebook.com/marketplace classifieds it's viewable by the public.

 

[AustinOski]

I am 100% with you on this. I know nothing about markets and how they're influenced, but in around 2005 my wife and I started talking about getting a rental property in town. It was only talk because it just didn't feel right, but we planned for it. The houses just didn't seem like they were actually worth what they were selling for so we waited. In 2009 we bought a house for less than half of what it was worth in 2005.

This is how it feels now with the classic car market, or at least the coupe market since that's all I really follow. The only thing that feels legit is the values of E3's going up slightly, which I think is in part because E9's have skyrocketed. Unfortunately with E3's, their value was so low for so long that a huge number of them were crushed.

I think E9’s are pulling them up. Same with 2002s - Turbo>tii>roundie>square tail. As one gets out of reach, the others rise. Porsche prices, too, have an effect. Maybe I want an old 911, it’s out of reach, so I go 2002.

What is that rental home worth now, in relation to 2005? Bet it’s a lot more. Granted, it’s 16 years on.

I think the market will soften, but not crash. I do think one thing to watch for is a generational timing. While the most sought after cars will always go-up, I think certain cars hit a bit of a peak when the people who most desire them (people who were 16-26 when they were newer) have the most money to invest (40-65).

I also think money and trends have a big effect on the market. When I was in my late teens and early 20’s, a friend and I were big cooks, threw dinner parties, sought out rare ingredients and all that. Years before celebrity chef’s, a million cooking shows and all that. Now look, everyone is doing it, you can stream 1000’s of hours of cooking and food shows.

Same has and is happening to cars, I think it pulls it more into the mainstream and creates broader demand. I’d be curious to look at the member trends of 2002faq, Rennlist, IH8MUD, e9coupe, etc. I but they are growing fast. I wasn’t here a year ago, yet I’m a life long BMW fan. Just doing more about it now.

 

[dang]

What is that rental home worth now, in relation to 2005? Bet it’s a lot more. Granted, it’s 16 years on.

The entire house was renovated, floorplan changed, bathroom added, etc., and the property was improved with a paver driveway and landscaping. It's now almost back up to the price it was in 2005 but WAY more value. To give you an idea of the condition of the house, when we put an offer on it I told my wife that there's no way I could sleep at night having a renter in that house. It was scary electrical and shoddy work all around so we'd gut it and start over.

I agree that E3's are going up by riding the coattails of other makes and models. (had to get some E3 content in there!)

 

[Wiessing]

Here's a Euro 3.0S that sold last year of BaT for $38,250

Euro 1971 BMW 3.0S

Bid for the chance to own a Euro 1971 BMW 3.0S at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #37,110.

bringatrailer.com

...so the price of this one may be the market.

I apologize for thinking it was high. Anytime our E3s can get this kind of money, I'm happy.

Thank you for sharing. I will check them out.

 

[AustinOski]

@Dick Steinkamp - $6.6k and many days left!

@Wiessing - Sorry for the hijack, but it’ll give you more visibility and I’m trying to make general case for higher E3 values!

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

@Dick Steinkamp - $6.6k and many days left!

As an E3 owner I'm rooting for it too.

 

[AustinOski]

I know you are @Dick Steinkamp. I’ve always been taught not to say, “I told you so.” However, I don’t think you’ll mind, in this case.

 

[JMinPDX]

Peter at Gullwing MotorCars is a believer! (Daydream Believer)
“ A great value and a smart buy for any BMW enthusiast looking for a fun spring project.”

1973 BMW Bavaria | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1973 BMW Bavaria at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Its gonna be winter before you know it.

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

I know you are @Dick Steinkamp. I’ve always been taught not to say, “I told you so.” However, I don’t think you’ll mind, in this case.

@AustinOski I think you missed my point.

In post #20 you say that "the values of E3s are going up fast", but you post no data to demonstrate that. In post 21 I post data from two pretty good sources that shows E3 values are fairly flat. I'd like them to increase. They deserve to increase. Selfishly it would be money in the bank for me.

Like you, I would like to see the BaT E3 (or any other one) do well. If it does do well, does that then prove that "the values of E3s are going up fast"?

 

[tmh]

A nice condition Bavaria sold on BAT last summer for $11k, and this one is now at $7k. Used Bavaria's may be rarer than E9's now days. 10 years ago used E3's were not rare. That is the evidence prices are increasing, to me. BAT is helping to establish current market prices by having a forum that brings interesting cars to a worldwide market, and the structure/format for selling cars is very well thought out. Seven days of scrutiny and entertaing comments with lots of pictures. It just takes two people who want the same car to push the price up substantially. E3's are much more upscale cars than a 2002, in many regards. Bavaria's were not cheap cars when new. Supply and demand dictates the price increase, in my humble opinion. Bavaria's are becoming very rare so the lack of supply pushes the price up the supply/demand curve. Just like E9's and 2002's. The 30 year old millennial working at my mechanic says my E3 is his favorite 4 door car. I was shocked when he said that.

 

[AustinOski]

The 30 year old millennial working at my mechanic says my E3 is his favorite 4 door car. I was shocked when he said that.

A few weeks ago, we were driving in our E3. A late teen/early 20 “kid” was driving in an older LR Disco, saw us, pumped his fist, grinned and yelled, ‘Baaavaaariaaaa! Whoooooo!” He was pretty darned excited. Like you, I was a surprised. Our 2002s get comments, waves, nods and all that - every drive. But, the Bavaria is getting some love, now, too.

 

[dang]

... and respect.

 

[HB Chris]

Will have to find my sticker: e3, Friends Not Food.

 

[AustinOski]

@Dick Steinkamp - I don’t think I missed the point. I just don’t think the sources/comps you cited are good ones - they’re outdated. True, there is not a lot of current data, but there aren’t a lot of E3’s for sale.

1. Hagerty does not include any sales data within the past year. That’s a lifetime in the current market. They value a #4 at $4,500. The one on BaT is maybe a #4, maybe not even there. Seems mechanically good, but cosmetics (body, interior, etc) need a total redo from tip to tail. No working A/C, cracked dash, bad carpet, etc, etc. It’s already at $7k, it’ll surely go higher.
2. BaT sales are also older, except the one that is recent, which sold for $38k. It may be an outlier, but maybe it’s just a more current indicator of where the market is. The one before that was in June 2020, that one went for $11k and is in much better shape than the one currently on BaT. It would be hard to argue it would not go for more today and that supports the fact that older comps are not indicative of today’s market.
3. I tried to buy one a few weeks ago. Decent cosmetically, but had not run in 3 years, doesn’t start, unknown mechanicals. I wanted to buy it to do an engine rebuild, 5spd, etc. I tried at $13k or maybe $13.5k. I was outbid. Not sure what it went for, I’ll try and find out.
4. Gullwing car - We all laugh, including me (5sp, really?). They won’t get that money. But, if the one on BaT sells for $10k or more, I bet that car gets some love. Interior actually looks like with a good cleaning it might be nice. I wish I had the shift knob!

Lastly, @Dick Steinkamp I hope you know my poking you is in good fun. We’re all in this hobby for fun! Hopefully we can discuss this in person, some day!

 

[GolfBavaria]

What people also don't understand, other than me and a handful of people like Dick that take e3's to a coupe restoration level. Call us crazy, call us passionate, call us idiots..... but one thing a lot of people don't realize that there is not much more to a coupe restoration than restoring a Bavaria or any e3. Only thing different really is the wooden dash on the coupe. e3 2800's have leather seats so that's not cheap either. We have 2 more doors to deal with, which translate to more paint, body work and interior bits. Mine has a sunroof, like some coupes, most CSI's don't have that. AC needs to be upgraded etc. So the wooden dash almost cancel's itself out. And people spend $100's of thousands of dollars on rotisserie restorations on e9's, and sometimes not even a rotisserie will cost that much. The bummer is the e3 owner rarely gets any of that recouped in a sale (if ever). We only do it for our own enjoyment. At least in a coupe you should see much more of a return after a full restoration. Anyhow, I know that Si is well worth that money, it's just a matter of someone else finding the value in it as well. GLWS, welcome to the board! -GB

Oh and to back up Chris's comment, I know of E3's that have gone for more than that asking price too, one almost double. I just upgraded my insurance on Hagerty to over $37K and they didn't blink an eye.