Big dollar CSi on ebay

Tony.dreamer

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In my opinion on a CSI there are more reasons to keep the original engine and FI management system . Once you change the engine to newer model engine then you would loose the extra worth of CSI over CS version. Seeing a CSI emblem and then noticing a newer style (B34 ) engine is a major turn of for me . But that is just me and I am rather a newbie to the E9 compared to a lot of you folks!
 
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Wes

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In my opinion on a CSI there are more reasons to keep the original engine and FI management system . Once you change the engine to newer model engine then you would loose the extra worth of CSI over CS version. Seeing a CSI emblem and then noticing a newer style (B34 ) engine is a major turn of for me . By that is just me and I am rather a newbie to the E9 compared to a lot of you folks!

This raises an interesting question for me on CS vs CSi values. Been tracking RHD E9 sales in Australia for the last year or so and it seems there has been significant upward movement in prices realised for good quality CS's to the point they now seem to rival CSi's and in some cases actually surpass.
Realise our cars (RHD) are a little different to US models in terms of compression ratios and production numbers. My thinking is demand here remains high and supply of quality cars is falling as less unrestored models become available and restored ones remain in loving homes?
 

Tony.dreamer

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This raises an interesting question for me on CS vs CSi values. Been tracking RHD E9 sales in Australia for the last year or so and it seems there has been significant upward movement in prices realised for good quality CS's to the point they now seem to rival CSi's and in some cases actually surpass.
Realise our cars (RHD) are a little different to US models in terms of compression ratios and production numbers. My thinking is demand here remains high and supply of quality cars is falling as less unrestored models become available and restored ones remain in loving homes?
The csi’s were not available for the US market market . During early 70’s I think late 71 US Federal Enviromental laws forced manufaturer’s to lower compressions at 9 or below. So CSI engine had more power than regular CS not just because of the Fuel Injection but also the higher ( more muscle ) compression engine!
Nowadays a real CSi in US on average are at least 25% higher in value! It seems to me there are more purists when it comes to CSi collectors than regular Cs .
Not sure about Australia however...
 
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Wes

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The csi’s We’re not available for the US market market . During early 70’s I think late 71 US Federal Enviromental laws forced manufaturer’s to lower compressions at 9 or below. So CSI engine had more power than regular CS not just because of the Fuel Injection but also the higher ( more muscle ) compression engine!
Nowadays a real CSi in US on average are at least 25% higher in value! It seems to me there are more purists when I come to CSi collectors than regular Cs .
Not sure about Australia however...

We have both out here and the odd unicorn Aus delivered CSL. I guess it's not really an apples and apples comparison for Aus delivered (or later UK imports) vs their US counterparts given the differing compression ratios and associated engine performance. The last few cars I've seen here sell on the open market ( I'm sure a few have also sold privately) have seen CS's go for an average of 70k - 80k (AUD) while CSi's seem to be about 75k-85k - this covers CSA's four and five speeds.
This doesn't factor in a premium for matching numbers, original colour etc.
In that case I've seen CS's at 8ok +.
perhaps it's an Aussie thing?
 

Tony.dreamer

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We have both out here and the odd unicorn Aus delivered CSL. I guess it's not really an apples and apples comparison for Aus delivered (or later UK imports) vs their US counterparts given the differing compression ratios and associated engine performance. The last few cars I've seen here sell on the open market ( I'm sure a few have also sold privately) have seen CS's go for an average of 70k - 80k (AUD) while CSi's seem to be about 75k-85k - this covers CSA's four and five speeds.
This doesn't factor in a premium for matching numbers, original colour etc.
In that case I've seen CS's at 8ok +.
perhaps it's an Aussie thing?
Rust has been a major factor evaluating E9’s.
I am sure is similar in Australia too. But I don’t know labor cost for body shops and rust repair . The E9 that bring top dollar like 80 k and above (aside from CSL) are those that have documented, proper and thorough rust repair and then rust proofing. That by itself adds anywhere from 20 to 30 k to the value of the CS if it’s followed by proper and nice paint job for another 10k . So rust remediation and paint and body work is about 40k or more. Interior at least 5 to 10k , bright works about 5 k . 5 speed upgrade 5k. This year couple of the nicely restored CS3.0 sold for $134k (1974 ) in Jan or Feb and $120k for a 1972 just few weeks ago.
 

Wes

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Rust has been a major factor evaluating E9’s.
I am sure is similar in Australia too. But I don’t know labor cost for body shops and rust repair . The E9 that bring top dollar like 80 k and above (aside from CSL) are those that have documented, proper and thorough rust repair and then rust proofing. That by itself adds anywhere from 20 to 30 k to the value of the CS if it’s followed by proper and nice paint job for another 10k . So rust remediation and paint and body work is about 40k or more. Interior at least 5 to 10k , bright works about 5 k . 5 speed upgrade 5k. This year couple of the nicely restored CS3.0 sold for $134k (1974 ) in Jan or Feb and $120k for a 1972 just few weeks ago.

Totally agree Tony. I'll be able to give you a precise figure for rust removal, bodywork and paint when my CS is completed at the end of the year :)
A couple of the coupes I've seen sold here recently had rust in all the usual spots but still brought over 70k. I saw one go at auction that wasn't even running, wrecked interior, rust and dinged that went for almost 40k at auction.
I think another factor in Australia is that there just aren't that many coupes actually here. Would love to know how many there are, suspect it's very low hundreds, that has to go around a population of 25 million +
I don't even think the E9 was even officially available in Australia when new, but will stand corrected.
 

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Is it true that euro spec cars demand a premium in the USA? Or have the euro cars got to have the big ugly chunky bumpers even to it's a euro spec car?
 

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Totally agree Tony. I'll be able to give you a precise figure for rust removal, bodywork and paint when my CS is completed at the end of the year :)
A couple of the coupes I've seen sold here recently had rust in all the usual spots but still brought over 70k. I saw one go at auction that wasn't even running, wrecked interior, rust and dinged that went for almost 40k at auction.
I think another factor in Australia is that there just aren't that many coupes actually here. Would love to know how many there are, suspect it's very low hundreds, that has to go around a population of 25 million +
I don't even think the E9 was even officially available in Australia when new, but will stand corrected.

Yes Wes, the limited numbers of E9's generally here in OZ probably commands something of a premium . BMW doesn't have stats on how many were delivered , however , in respect of factory delivered csi's , they were good enough to confirm 18 were delivered ( it was only because it was a relatively small amount that they needed to count in a sequential vin range of 207 cars ) . Not sure how many CS's/CSA's reached our shores direct from the factory but not a lot I would think ...the rest probably imported privately from UK & South Africa . We need to be mindful that not all cars go to the public market and as with any marque , if someone wants "the best ", they will seek it out and "pay the freight" to get it.
 

Tony.dreamer

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Is it true that euro spec cars demand a premium in the USA? Or have the euro cars got to have the big ugly chunky bumpers even to it's a euro spec car?
You are 100% correct ! Euro E9 specifically CSi (which has not only fuel injection with lots less trouble vs Carburators CS , but also the higher compression engine 10:1 vs 9:1 ) brings at least 25% more vs non Euro of comparable shape ! Sometimes even more 30 or 35 % . All of the CSI in USA has been imported by individuals over the years! Chrome bumpers is what most every one likes! That alone adds $5k to the value. Starting in 1974 all US models have the ugly large (dive board) Alluminum Bumpers!

I really urge you guys to promote registering the E9 in the E9 Registery so that over the next few years you have a better idea as to numbers of E9 in Australia. Memeber , HB Chris is not only one of the best and super helpful gentleman on this community but also has the passion of trying hard to get people to register their E9.
Best wishes
And cheers to you folks!
 

Dohn

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Is it true that euro spec cars demand a premium in the USA? Or have the euro cars got to have the big ugly chunky bumpers even to it's a euro spec car?


The big bumpers were for the US only. I parked my US '74 coupe next to a Euro '74 coupe at the BMW CCA Oktoberfest concours, and he had the chrome bumpers everyone prefers. There are other details unique to the US '74 model, as well, which makes finding certain replacement parts a bit of a challenge. But that's part of the fun, right? If I wanted easy I'd buy a '65 Mustang or '57 Chevy; something you can build entirely from aftermarket parts...
 

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to me if a CS and a CSi were truly in the same condition, there would be a mild uptick in value for the CSi, if it had the original engine. but knowing that no two CS or CSi are truly in the same condition i have trouble with the assertion that one is more valuable than the other. the first question is condition, the second is originality, the third is work that has been done in restoration / maintenance.

i think it is safe to say that a perfect restoration above and beyond (like OCCoupe did) could overshadow all other known values of a CS / CSi. only the rare impeccable survivor such as CCR2002's original ceylon might be able to compete at that level. perhaps there are a few more at that level that i do not know about ... those are discussions that CS / CSi comparisons don't enter into because the condition is beyond reproach. The next part of the comparative discussion could be beautifully maintained or restored cars that would compete on equal levels - such as HBChris' malaga, Stan's GR8Wht, Stevehose's polaris, Lothar Schuettler's polaris, etc.

I would like to echo Tony's comment -
I really urge you guys to promote registering the E9 in the E9 Registery so that over the next few years you have a better idea as to numbers of E9 in Australia. Memeber , HB Chris is not only one of the best and super helpful gentleman on this community but also has the passion of trying hard to get people to register their E9.
 

Stan

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to me if a CS and a CSi were truly in the same condition, there would be a mild uptick in value for the CSi, if it had the original engine. but knowing that no two CS or CSi are truly in the same condition i have trouble with the assertion that one is more valuable than the other. the first question is condition, the second is originality, the third is work that has been done in restoration / maintenance.

i think it is safe to say that a perfect restoration above and beyond (like OCCoupe did) could overshadow all other known values of a CS / CSi. only the rare impeccable survivor such as CCR2002's original ceylon might be able to compete at that level. perhaps there are a few more at that level that i do not know about ... those are discussions that CS / CSi comparisons don't enter into because the condition is beyond reproach. The next part of the comparative discussion could be beautifully maintained or restored cars that would compete on equal levels - such as HBChris' malaga, Stan's GR8Wht, Stevehose's polaris, Lothar Schuettler's polaris, etc.

I would like to echo Tony's comment -
Speaking of restorations, how is yours coming? Can't wait to see your coupe !
 

rsporsche

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my painter has promised to get it painted with glass in by the end of the year. frustrating. i've got a great collection of parts organized in black + yellow boxes in my garage ... with more parts on the way. my engine from SFDon is at Benji's shop in Greenville + Bob Beverly is supposed to bring it over when he comes this way. Brendan (BDigel) is going to put a lot of the mechanicals together and then i have to get on Don's schedule to come to ATL the only good news is that i have avoided any large bills at one time to catch the auditor's attention.
Can't wait to see your coupe !
i can't wait either ... its been a long time coming
 

CSteve

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my painter has promised to get it painted with glass in by the end of the year. frustrating. i've got a great collection of parts organized in black + yellow boxes in my garage ... with more parts on the way. my engine from SFDon is at Benji's shop in Greenville + Bob Beverly is supposed to bring it over when he comes this way. Brendan (BDigel) is going to put a lot of the mechanicals together and then i have to get on Don's schedule to come to ATL the only good news is that i have avoided any large bills at one time to catch the auditor's attention.
i can't wait either ... its been a long time coming
That's the Auditor in Residence I assume.
 

Tony.dreamer

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The way I see values of E9’s in the future is that there will be more and more CS Carburator versions that either changed to Weber carbs or changed to an engine such as M30B34 engines.
The reasons we don’t see E9 owners going through rebuilding their original engine on CS 3.0 and instead opting more and more to change to a newer Replacment FI engine ( B34 , B35 etc..) is because of the troubles and nuisances of Carburators and more power from newer engines and perhaps cost of rebuild. However I rarely hear any CSi owner these days change their engines to another none original engines. May be it was done more often 10 or 20 years ago for the csi owners . But I doubt that a CSI owner today would do such a thing. So in my opinion as times goes by we would probabaly see more pure CSIs than CSs, and that in my opinion should widen the values of the CSI as time goes by I would imagine.
 
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