Brake Upgrades

Baikal Bimmer

Baikal Bimmer

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We have a 1972 Csi in baikal blue. We have swapped in a slightly overbored 3.5 with a cam, a five speed, lsd differential, and plan to run megasquirt. The brake lines have been replaced, the hoses changed to stainless steel, and the booster and master cylinder rebuilt. The car has also been lowered using ca tuned racing coil overs. The car will be driven on tracks, and some auto cross too. We also plan to drive the car frequently on the street. We want to make sure the brakes are safe for road and track use. Here’s the question, are there any later model Bmw brakes and calipers that will bolt on, or require little modificationto adapt? I know in previous threads the brakes have been described as adequate, but we want the best for our car, so we are really looking for an upgrade in this department.
 
When researching this for myself a while back I was told that 750il brakes are a useful upgrade but have not been able to find any to see if they fit.
 
Baikal Bimmer said:
We have a 1972 Csi in baikal blue. We have swapped in a slightly overbored 3.5 with a cam, a five speed, lsd differential, and plan to run megasquirt. The brake lines have been replaced, the hoses changed to stainless steel, and the booster and master cylinder rebuilt. The car has also been lowered using ca tuned racing coil overs. The car will be driven on tracks, and some auto cross too. We also plan to drive the car frequently on the street. We want to make sure the brakes are safe for road and track use. Here’s the question, are there any later model Bmw brakes and calipers that will bolt on, or require little modificationto adapt? I know in previous threads the brakes have been described as adequate, but we want the best for our car, so we are really looking for an upgrade in this department.
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When you replace your brakes, if you're interested I'll buy your old rear brakes. I have 2800cs, it has drums in back!
 
The description of the Wilwood conversion says something interesting:

Note: These calipers are single line. You must either switch to a single line master cylinder like BMW 34 31 1 150 229, or “T” the hard lines then run 1 line to the caliper.

It seems that if you took the "T" approach, you would lose the benefit of having dual circuit brakes. Wouldn't it be better to cap off one line and connect only the other to the Wilwood front calipers? Or am I missing something?

Also note that 16" wheels are required for clearance.
 
The wheel size is not a problem, we are running 17 in. What about custom brakes, or what if you swapped out the hub. The Ireland engineering kit’s price is a little steep.
 
bmw2800cs.com said:
When you replace your brakes, if you're interested I'll buy your old rear brakes. I have 2800cs, it has drums in back!
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not sure if you know this, but in order to change drums to disks on the 2800cs, you also have to change the swingarms ... so its a bit more complicated
 
IMHO, it’s hard to find a single pad compound that’s good for both road and track.

A really great race compound may lack cold bite, be quite noisy, and be very dusty. All things you don’t give a second or even first though at the track.

A great street pad may lack the super high temp capability and high friction coeff you need for racing duty.

Whatever calipers and disc you end up with, look into the pros and cons of 2 sets of dedicated pads and paired brake rotors. And bed in the race setup before you Ned them for racing A race pad may not work great with rotors which were bedded in with street compound pads. The concern is incompatibility resulting in uneven pad deposits and terrible brake shudder/vibration on the track.

John
 
I echo the above comment. Although I don't have any direct experience with E9/3 big brake kits I once had a UUC BBK for my E30. Although I liked it's light weight and stopping power I went back to the factory brakes with Pagid pads because all of the pad compounds ( tried at least three) I found had unavoidable squealing at cold temps during street use which was annoying to say the least. Since the car was not a dedicated track car I ditched the setup.
 
My worry is with the increased power, the car’s stopping power won’t be able to keep up, especially when we take it on the track!
 
If we decide to go wilwood is the front enough? Or do we need to do the rears as well. How great is the upgrade this kit offers?
 
Bearmw said:
As long as the street use pad compounds you like are available go for it.
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It doesn’t take very long to swap pads on an E9. Maybe 20 minutes? That seems like a reasonable hassle for really good track performance.

Swapping front rotors/pads as a matched set is a whole ‘nuther deal. This could easily take an hour, or even perhaps 90min, and involves consumables (cotter pins).

Probably not worth the trouble.

I have no first hand experience with the pad incompatibility issue I mentioned above. But a friend experience precisely this issue at a CCA track day last year in his street car. Of course he had almost 400hp and 3500lbs of weight to deal with.

Suggest you go to the BMW club racing forum or shops that field E9 racecars to get better advice.

John
 
With our cars, you're not going to get the stopping power of a more modern car, or a car set up for racing, because its just not stiff enough. Similarly, it will not change directions like a stiffer car.

As to brake setups, a friend of mine (BMWCCA racing school instructor, owned a car shop, had several coupes) was working on fitting alternative BMW calipers to our cars and did not find anything that worked. If you find stainless steel lines, ATE Super Blue (or whatever they call it now) fluid and track pads to be inadequate, then I think Wilwood is the way to go.

I would try lines, fluid and pads first and see how it goes.
 
Baikal Bimmer said:
If we decide to go wilwood is the front enough? Or do we need to do the rears as well. How great is the upgrade this kit offers?
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I’d guess 75-80% of your braking is done by the fronts. If you upgrade only one end, you might change the F/R balance. On the track, the right balance matters if you want to go fast. A cheap rear brake pressure adjuster/valve will allow you to rebalance as needed, and this can be tucked away under the hood.
 
bfeng said:
I’d guess 75-80% of your braking is done by the fronts. If you upgrade only one end, you might change the F/R balance. On the track, the right balance matters if you want to go fast. A cheap rear brake pressure adjuster/valve will allow you to rebalance as needed, and this can be tucked away under the hood.
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Recall too that our cars have a rear brake pressure relief valve for the rear brakes so that they do not lock as quickly as the fronts when braking harshly. This makes our cars more controllable, especially for the average driver on the street.
 
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