Cca concours

[JFENG]

Spray bomb for sale

Seller is apparently a CCA judge. It makes me wonder how CCA concours judging compares to say Jaguar or Alfa or general car show judging. I am a trained seal judge for a few models/makes of classic cars and find it hard to fathom how a car like this one could get an 3rd place unless there were only three cars in the class and no lower threshold for getting an award.

Even if I try to turn the dial back 15 years on this car, it seems odd that this car would have been winning concours trophies at CCA or non-CCA shows.

What am I missing?

john

PS, I think concours judging is non-trivial. For a single model of car there are pages upon pages of facts to memorize, many of which are year specific. Imagine if you were judging 3-4 models!

Maybe there was less year to year variation on BMWs so it’s easier than UK and Italian cars?

 

[vince]

HB Chris, Stan, and OCCoupe probably have the best input since I believe they have all been judges before. I'm pretty sure it's based on how clean your car is verses how original it is.

The first Oktoberfest I entered my in coupe in was Monterey 2013. I prepped and prepped for that show. I completely rebuilt my sunroof and had all the aluminum pieces polished, spent a ton of time under the hood including taking my FI system apart and having the plenum and runners bead blasted then reassembled everything, etc...

The car looked incredible and I couldn't wait to show it off. I walked up to car after it got judged and there a white glove thrown down in disgust behind the car. I guess, I forgot to clean the bottom of my rear bumper.

 

[HB Chris]

Vince, 2013 was still under the prior administration where they loved q-tips and white gloves. When Paul Cain was given the role of head Concours judge things changed dramatically. We came up with a standard set of criteria to be used in all national events that is objective and not subjective, it was used in 2016 where you won an award I think. CCA judging is strictly cleanliness, unlike Mercedes, Jaguar and Porsche, there are no BMW marque experts in all models. There used to be an e9 stock and modified class at the precursor to Legends but that is long gone as well. The preservation class is the only class that considers originality but it is still cleanliness based. In 2013 one of the younger judges was so proud when he showed the head judge the cell phone pic of the bug he found on the center bearing, ridiculous!

 

[adawil2002]

From the BMW CCA dot org website:

The BMW CCA hosts a number of Concours events during the year. These are organized at three levels: National events, regional shows, and local chapter shows. These range in formality from local ‘show and shine’ to formal judged Concours d’Elegance events.

The BMW CCA Oktoberfest, held annually, hosts the National Concours as a part of the week-long schedule. This show pulls chapter members from all over the country and is a cornerstone as one of the most important annual gatherings on the CCA calendar. The second national office organized event is the Legends of the Autobahn™ event held each year in August during the Monterey/Pebble Beach Car week.

The BMW CCA National judging rules are organized in a disciplined system, based on a foundation of fairness and consistency. The classes are organized by age and model type, with points scoring and deductions being based on cleanliness and condition. As a single marque event, rarity is not included in the judging criteria. For older models and vintage BMW’s, the rules provide additional correction points for both age and miles accumulated. A rigorous system is also in place for restored models as well.

All BMW CCA National judges participate in a standard training system used at all national events. All BMW CCA judges sign and acknowledge the BMW CCA Judges Code of Ethics statement, ensuring that, before judging any car, that they are independent from any ownership or preparation activity of any car that they are asked to judge.

The CCA encourages informality and collaboration in inviting new members to join at the ‘clean’ level of preparation, as a way of discovering both new friends and new ways of enjoying BMW’s fine engineering and design heritage.

 

[JFENG]

CCA judging is strictly cleanliness, unlike Mercedes, Jaguar and Porsche, corvette, mustang, Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini …

This makes a lot of sense & is perhaps why mods don’t seem to hurt values of E9’s (excluding CSL’s).

I wonder if this is a contributing factor in the success of the club?

 

[HB Chris]

I doubt it, most members don’t enter concour events. It has helped once they created the Tuner class for younger owners with highly modified BMWs. Their trophy looks like a PBA Tour trophy, the rest are small lucite plaques.

Older owners are a dying breed, they need to find a way to attract the younger crowd.

 

[Arde]

..
I guess, I forgot to clean the bottom of my rear bumper.

Is this a graphic metaphor? Apologies if it is not, I just spent three days translating the "Tushy" brand bidet manual into Spanish, so I was triggered...

 

[adawil2002]

Older owners are a dying breed, they need to find a way to attract the younger crowd.

This is true of all car clubs from the Horseless Carriage Club of America (HCCA) Antique Automobile Club of America (AACA) to the BMW CCA since the late 1980s. We were very active in the HCCA & AACA when we were in CT. Relatively speaking the BMW CCA is the younger crowd.

Many ideas have been proposed at Chapter Congresses from incorporating a subscription program for $4.50/month to starting special interest groups & non-geographic chapters. It's a big organization that resists changing the status quo quickly, there is a lot of red tape with strict requirements to be a chapter & run events.

There are small regional free BMW groups like the Nor'East '02ers, Nor'East E9ers, Rivertown Gear Busters & True Friends of Alex von Falkenhausen among others which are more like the original idea behind the BMW CCA in the early days.

The BMW Classic CCA, http://www.bmwccca.com, is a separate organization tailored to older BMWs. Its focus is on the older BMWs where our collective interests on this forum are. Several people have left the BMW CCA for the BMW Classic CCA while many more are member of both.

In the BMW CCA for 37 years, Pine Tree Chapter President for over 12 years, belong to 5 chapters & Foundation Ambassador for 3 years.
In the BMW Classic CCA for 5 years, 4 as active contributing writer & Eastern Regional Director.