'chip' a motronic 1.3

alanmcg

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does anyone have experience 'chipping' a motronic system? im not even sure i know what that means, but assume its done on a dyno, and electronics are tweaked to achieve max hp/perf, then new chip burned/programmed.

the reason im asking is i just drove a 3.0 that had some off-brand fuel injection system, and it had WAY more power than my 3.5 with motronic 1.3. which made me VERY grumpy!! so clearly my car is performing way below is capability so was thinking maybe some dyno time and a new chip would help.

any and all ideas welcome.

btw, other than being (what i now know is) a DOG, the car runs smooth, starts quickly, even power through all rpm's, ect etc. in other words, it is a very good running dog!
 

61porsche

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Alan,

Have you changed plugs? If so, what did they look like?

Do you happen to know which ECU you currently are running? 179?

When Motronic changes are made, one of the advantages is an oxegen sensor in the exhaust that tells the the computer to richen or lean the fuel by varying the injection timing. If the OS is defective or missing it could cause the engine to be less responsive by going full rich.

So my suggestion first, is to make sure what you have is running optimally. Even if that means you need to read the OS signal with a meter.


Chips, there are many out there. It contains the codes for fuel curves for certain conditions. Generally, expect to see some performance gains on the 15-30 hp on say a Dinan. But chips, like all hp changes work together with many pieces.

Lastly, a 3.0 set up could mean a lot of things including rear end gear changes that can make a car feel much quicker in comparison to another.
 

alanmcg

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hey 61porsche - i was hoping you would respond - your threads are always very informative.
changed plugs recently and they were clean.
dont know what ecu i have - how do i chk that?

the power difference between that 3.0 and my 3.5 was REALLY substantial - way more than gearing/rear-end or lightened flywheel etc could do. if i had to guess id say it was 20-30 PERCENT more powerful than my car, and i have 20% more displacement! so something is really not right with my setup.
thnks much for your help,
alanmcg
 

alanmcg

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ox sensor

one more thing - the shop that tuned up my car last said it seemed to run better with the ox sensor disconnected - you are probably saying ah-hah right now. so that probably suggest my o2 sensor is bad right? if so, how/where do i get a new one?
 

61porsche

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The ecu or computer is usually by the glove box. There should be markings on it.

Were the plugs too clean? Or just nice and tan?

The first thing I'd do would be a compression test and see how tight everything is.

Adjust the valves and double check the cam position relative to TDC.

Then start checking every FI component starting with the fuel regulator.

Do you think it's just throttle response?
 

61porsche

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AHA....yes. :-D

They have a limited lifespan. Disconnect the wires and take it for a spin. Take it out and to the local parts house. There are generic ones but make sure it has the same amount of wires.

Diconnected, the motor defaults to rich. This could mean several things- low fuel pressure, volume, injector cleaning, etc. basically running on the lean side which isn't good for power.
 

alanmcg

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ok - i disconnected the ox sens, went for a test drive, could not tell any difference at all. so i was able to find a new sensor today (sunday - amazing), installed it, and it may have made a very small difference, but nothing dramatic at all.

so you can see the cars current perf, here is a link to all my coupe pics, the very last one is the vid i took today - its very dark - sorry - but i think you will be able to see and hear how the car performs - again, its not bad, but it nothing like that 3.0 i drove yesterday either.
https://picasaweb.google.com/alan.mcginnis/74Coupe?authkey=Gv1sRgCMXgtNm1v5vSMA#

one last fi data pt, my cold start injector has never been connected, cuz when you do the car wont start at all - without it, it starts great, even in the cold, so not sure whats up with that, but maybe that will be a clue for all you guys that are smarter than me.

have included a couple pics below showing the cold start injector and my overal setup - it is '85 635 3.5l with motronic 1.3. the eco is bosch # 0261200179.

any/all ideas welcome.

thanks much,
alanmcg
 

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61porsche

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OS

Alan,

You have a great car from all the pictures...

What I suggest is two things:

1. measure the OS voltage after it's warmed up at idle or 1500 and again at about 3500.

Here's the scoop on what you're looking for, "The Motronic injection system fitted to BMW vehicles equipped with a Catalytic Converter implements a closed loop control system so that exhaust emissions may be reduced. Closed loop systems are equipped with an oxygen sensor which monitors the exhaust gas for oxygen content. A low oxygen level in the exhaust signifies a rich mixture. A high oxygen level in the exhaust
signifies a weak mixture. The Oxygen Sensor closed loop voltage is quite low and switches between 100 mVolts (weak) to 1.0 volt (rich).
The signal actually takes the form of a switch and switches from weak to rich at the rate of approximately 1 HZ. A digital voltmeter connected to the signal wire, would display.an average voltage of approximately 0.45 volts. In the event of OS circuit failure, the ECU substitutes a constant voltage of 0.45 volts and this should not be confused with the average voltage of 0.45
which occurs during switching from approximately 1.0 volt to 0.1 volt.
When the engine is operating under closed loop control, the OS signal causes the ECU to modify the injector pulse so that the AFR is maintained close to the stoichiometric ratio. By controlling the injection pulse, during most operating conditions, so that the air/ fuel ratio is always in a small window around the Lambda point (ie Lambda = 0.98 to 1.04), almost perfect combustion is achieved. Thus the Catalyst has less work to do and it will last longer with fewer emissions at the tail pipe. The closed loop control is implemented during engine operation at engine normal operating temperature. When the coolant temperatures is below 70° C, or the engine is at full load or is on the overrun the ECU will operate in open loop. When operating
in open loop, the ECU allows a richer or leaner AFR than the stoichiometric ratio. This prevents engine hesitation, for example, during acceleration with a wide open throttle. The OS only produces a signal when the exhaust gas, has reached a minimum temperature of approximately 300° C. In order that the OS will reach optimum operating temperature as quickly as possible after the engine has started, the OS contains a heating element. The OS heater is controlled by the ECU through an OS relay or from the fuel pump relay depending on vehicle. The ECU switches off the OS relay under certain conditions of speed and load.

Item 2: The AFM and adjustment after 1 above. You can alter the mixture somewhat by following the procedure in the link from last night. But not until it's comfirmed your running rich or lean.

I'd also suggest you check the throttle linkages/ cables for any play since it seems a slow at first by looking at the tach in your video. What rpms are you shifting at?

Do you have any info on what the previous owner did to the engine since it's an Ljet manifold running 1.3 motronic? Cam? Maybe a pic of the injectors? I beleive I heard Carl/ Lajolla did the conversion?

By the way- you have a 179 ECU or DME, that's good.

Okay, now a question for you- what did you use to punch the kickpanel speaker holes? And how is the center wired?
 

Stevehose

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I don't know dick about Motronic but I know a nice coupe when I see one!

What kind of relays do you have for the high beam and horn (part #'s please) and are they in the original sockets or rewired for diferent pin configuration?

Nice Dynamat-age and cute back seat rider!
 

alanmcg

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thnks 61 - ill need to read your post a few more times then will take some voltage measurements tomorrow.
motor, fi, and 5 speed conversions all done by carl nelson - injectors are lucas volvo injectors and caps, stock cam.
i think i was shifting around 5500-6000 in the vid - and i agree, the rpm's seem quite slow to build, again especially compared to the damn 3.0 i drove - ill also chk the linkage tomorrow.

if your question re speaker is how did i punch the holes in the leather, i just drew a pattern on the back of the leather (using compass, ruler, etc), and then used a little hole punch with leather resting on solid wood block - easy. if you are asking how i cut the holes in the kickpanel so the speakers would fit - i didnt - all that crazy stereo system was done without a single modificat/cut to any part of the car.
the center speaker is really trick - it has 2 channels bridged into it, so is a full 'stereo' sound. operates like the center channel on a dolby home theater system. the end result is very bright sound coming right at you from the middle of the car.
 

61porsche

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Scalded Cat.....AHA

Alan,

More like wolf in sheep's clothing.

T-Zero racing ( The whole family races) built the motor. These guys tricked out this thing to Grp 2 Alpina specs @ 250hp. Which means it's had all kinda work done. High compression, cam'd, serious head work, lightened rods, etc.

Look at the pictures closely at the distributer- it's been dummied up at the cap- pretty trick. The list goes on.

Then, someone decided to go stand alone EFI with Autronic (The off brand you refer to) which also requires MSD and junked the Bosch. This cost more than what the ad says as just the Autronic costs $2100 without install and then there's dyno time.

What all this means is that 3.0 was just a badge.

Sooo....before you chip.... there's work to be done. 40 or so hp if that's what you want.

Volvo Lucas injectors- can you get a part number off one?

Jerry
 
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x_atlas0

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I have had excellent results from multiple chipped vehicles. The E34 540 I drive has been chipped for more than 10 years with no ill effects. It gave a nice boost in power and ~10% gain in fuel economy. Depending on how much control you want, you can either buy a canned tune for ~300$, or get the Miller WAR chip package (which includes a MAF) for ~600$ which lets you make your own tune or get one from them.
 
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