Client requests for 3.0 CSL - special versions

[pmansson]

And what is that black "thing" on the roof, just behind the windscreen...?
A bit early for a mobile phone antenna !!
An early car with clear glass.

 

[eastsideM3]

And what is that black "thing" on the roof, just behind the windscreen...?
A bit early for a mobile phone antenna !!
An early car with clear glass.

Its a radio antenna, and again that car was a fuel injected car, so it would not have had all the lightweight elements of the early "carb" csl's.

 

[CSL 1973]

As regards the Alpina LL-L 502;

I think the picture is from AMS test in November 1972 (or maybe it's a "Pressefoto". In that issue (AMS 24 11/72) they test the following CSLs (serie and tuning):

3.0 CSL serie version (200 HP/5500) with reg nr M-AH 1094
3.0 CSL GS (230HP/6600)
3.0 CSL Alpina (250HP/6800)
3.0 CSL Koepchen (260HP/6800)
3.0 CSL Schnitzer (290HP/6800)

Alpina Tuning-parts prices (11/72):

Injection engine 250 PS DM 8320
Oil cooler with thermostat DM 277
ZF-5 speed gearbox DM 3000
Adjustable Stabilisers DM 355
Frontspoiler DM 211

The judgement of the Alpina was simply: "King of the road"

Cheers

 

[eastsideM3]

I wonder if anyone managed to save a GS, Koepchen or schnitzer street CSL???

 

[jranmann]

I wonder if anyone managed to save a GS, Koepchen or schnitzer street CSL???

Seems I saw an AC CSL recently ... here's a classic riding along what appears to be Hwy1 near Big Sur, CA.

 

[CSL 1973]

eastsideM3:

I think I have traced one of the 3.0 CSL Schnitzer. It's the famous 2275140. Yes, it looks very special but I'm afraid that's more or less how the Schnitzer ones looked like in the early 70s. On this one, they have added the roof and rear bat spoilers, vindsplits, another frontspoiler and some ventilations on the bonnet etc which I think were not correct for a Schnitzer.

http://www.grabersportgarage.ch/index.php?n=ca&c=ca_d&k=37

Cheers

 

[feri]

eastsideM3:

I am thinking about the informatin you have shared about the B2 / B2S engines. Can you share a bit more about your e9 1971 b2s car, please ? Can you tell me if you car was built before or after 1971 september ?

It is very interesting that the magazines haven't wrote anything about the B2S until 1972. This is my collection of alpina e9 articles, am I missing anything ? Sorry about some of the bad scan, my scanner is not working properly.

(this might be interesting for other people, I hope).

1. I haven't red any test about the Alpina B1 2800 CS, the only B1 engine article is about E3 2800, in AMS 1970/26:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4818/14546149.jpg

a closeup to the engine:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2262/38489482.jpg

2. I will skip the 1972 AMS article with all the 5 CSL version, because it is well know by everyone.

3. The only B2 article I have found is in Sport Moteur no. 307 (1972 october magazine). This is LL-H-450

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1141/82089098.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3605/39190834.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9648/97694132.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/1499/49151272.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2780/98410360.jpg

4. Then there is an article about the carb csl. I have promised earlier that I will scan it. It is from AMS 1971/11 (1971 may, page 32)

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2125/49754074.jpg

closeup:

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8572/65724059.jpg

The licence plate (KF-04042) can be seen on a E28 B10 in the french magazine Sport Auto ,1985 may, no. 280 (!). So i guess it is an Alpina licence plate.

5. Next is a german magazine, named Motor Revue 'Winterausgabe' 1972/1973. I haven't scanned the first 2 page, it is just plain blah blah about cls, with a 2 page picture of the LL-L-502 car.

This is a very confusing article because it is mixing the Alpina 3.0 CS (presumably B2) and the Alpina 3.0 CSL (B2S) pictures, with minimal description:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2426/63148264.jpg

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1919/16690126.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1101/19196416.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3056/29691474.jpg

Also 2 more picture from the article. These are the same picture, which were published in AMS, but as there is no high quality scan on the net, I thougth I can share it:

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4497/29648796.jpg

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7095/76199877.jpg

6. 2 english articles (I haven't scanned the full articles). First is from Motor, 1972 december, second one is from Motor Sport, 1973 february:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4282/18686735.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9643/46503720.jpg

7. I have promised some B3 pictures I had took couple years ago. What do you think about this engine ?

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/635/alpina20051032.jpg

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3653/alpina20051028.jpg

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6903/alpina20051016.jpg

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3748/alpina20051000.jpg

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8683/alpina20050999.jpg

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8328/alpina20051036.jpg


8. I have checked my archives about the 1971 Alpina program. The main brochure (programmhinweise) says that in 1971 september only the B1 and B2 engines were available, but only for the E3 cars. I have posted this scan to m5board.com.

Also checked my BMW-Alpina Motoren-Preisliste (green small book). It is also from 1971 september. Here I haven't found any info about the B2S engine. So when was the first B2S built then?

 

[feri]

I wonder if anyone managed to save a GS, Koepchen or schnitzer street CSL???

That yellow + black GS raced in Targa Florio in I think 1973. There was another Scnitzer 3.0 CS (not CSL) for sale with bodykit couple years ago.

Also the white / blue Koepchen CSL is not the only Koepchen CSL. There is a calender published with full of Kopechen pictures in around 1973. In this calendar there is polaris Koepchen 3.0 CSL.

 

[shanon]

Thanks for the links/scans Feri.

All I have is a B&W copy of the CSL Tuner 'shootout' article, anybody have a link to a color copy? Never knew the GS was yellow?!?!?

Let me know if you guys want an image of the Alpina 2800 Coupe, 'The Ultimate Conversion Pack' road test, Sports Car World, 1970. ( I know its not an 'L', but has the triple Weber 45DCOE set-up rated at 300hp and its in English)

Also, have an interesting period article on the British 'Broadspeed CSL' (Motorsport 1972) , supposedly faster than the Schnitzer car of the day, but outlawed. They also test an ealy inka CSL road car....color pics

again all thx for sharing and let me know
-shanon

 

[eastsideM3]

Yes Feri you are correct. My car is a 1971, but the conversion was done at Alpina in 1972. Additionally my E3 was produced in 1974, and the conversion was not done at Alpina until 1979!
As I said, I believe the B2 and B2S conversions were offered at the same time to customer converted cars, offering different levels of comfort (ride) and performance. It is my theory (and I could very well be wrong), that Alpina did not recommend or promote the B2S conversion for E3 and E9 CS and CSI models, as it was the extreme in HP and performance, so it was promoted mostly towards the CSL.
Im not sure because Alpina cannot confirm, but my car could very well be one of the first full B2S conversions for a non CSL E9. It also has an interesting "hercules filter" setup that is documented on the build sheet that is not to the norm of what we are accustomed to seeing from Alpina.

 

[mpgandco]

Here are some of the Famous Carey Iida Alpina car.I had stored this car a couple of times and spent hours looking at it.This car went to Alpina the same or next day it was produced from BMW.Notice,Gauge Cluster from Alpina.The car also has a rear Diff.cooler from Alpina

 

[feri]

Thanks for the links/scans Feri.

All I have is a B&W copy of the CSL Tuner 'shootout' article, anybody have a link to a color copy? Never knew the GS was yellow?!?!?

Let me know if you guys want an image of the Alpina 2800 Coupe, 'The Ultimate Conversion Pack' road test, Sports Car World, 1970. ( I know its not an 'L', but has the triple Weber 45DCOE set-up rated at 300hp and its in English)

Also, have an interesting period article on the British 'Broadspeed CSL' (Motorsport 1972) , supposedly faster than the Schnitzer car of the day, but outlawed. They also test an ealy inka CSL road car....color pics

again all thx for sharing and let me know
-shanon

Oops, sorry ! I was writing it from memory, as I was too lazy to check my archive. The factory csl was yellow, the alpina was red / blue, the schnitzer was green, the koepchen was blue + white. The GS was white ! Orangener has scanned the article like a year ago or so, but if needed I can scan it tomorrow night.

It is too late for opening my cupboard with the bmw archive at home (my wife and my daughter are sleeping), but as i remember in my gs bmw tuning brochure from 1972 there was a b+w picture of a gs 3.0 csl. It think the car was black + some light color, probably yellow or white. But the periodic GS road + racing cars were yellow + black, so that car also might be yellow + black.

btw here is the targa florio car: http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/336526/1973 bmw sangrylà federico 9.jpg1..jpg

And yes, please share the Broadspeed article.

 

[feri]

Here are some of the Famous Carey Iida Alpina car.I had stored this car a couple of times and spent hours looking at it.This car went to Alpina the same or next day it was produced from BMW.Notice,Gauge Cluster from Alpina.The car also has a rear Diff.cooler from Alpina

mpgandco:

thank you for sharing the pictures.

 

[feri]

Yes Feri you are correct. My car is a 1971, but the conversion was done at Alpina in 1972. Additionally my E3 was produced in 1974, and the conversion was not done at Alpina until 1979!
As I said, I believe the B2 and B2S conversions were offered at the same time to customer converted cars, offering different levels of comfort (ride) and performance. It is my theory (and I could very well be wrong), that Alpina did not recommend or promote the B2S conversion for E3 and E9 CS and CSI models, as it was the extreme in HP and performance, so it was promoted mostly towards the CSL.
Im not sure because Alpina cannot confirm, but my car could very well be one of the first full B2S conversions for a non CSL E9. It also has an interesting "hercules filter" setup that is documented on the build sheet that is not to the norm of what we are accustomed to seeing from Alpina.

Thank you for your reply. Your reply once again contains very interesting information. I thought, and all the sources sugested that promoting the alpina 3.0 csl with b2s engine was a first step for alpina for making a static modell range, and quit from the 'tuning package for your car' business. But you say that B2S was a tuning package for 3.0 cs / csl, and not a complete modell (=alpina 3.0 csl).

Also it is internesting that if Alpina hasn't recommened the b2s package for cs and csi, why did they changed their mind, and offered it for your non csl e9 ?

Anyway what do you think about the b3 engine photos ? Is it possible that it is a real b3 engine ?

 

[feri]

As we are speaking about the schnitzer 3.0 csl, I will share one more article. It might be well known for the csl experts, but others probably haven't seen it. It is from Modern Motor, 1974 june:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4263/57916189.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2429/39222416.jpg

Now I am going to bed, it is almost 01:00 AM here.

 

[mpgandco]

Feri.....Your Welcome,here are a few more

 

[eastsideM3]

Thank you for your reply. Your reply once again contains very interesting information. I thought, and all the sources sugested that promoting the alpina 3.0 csl with b2s engine was a first step for alpina for making a static modell range, and quit from the 'tuning package for your car' business. But you say that B2S was a tuning package for 3.0 cs / csl, and not a complete modell (=alpina 3.0 csl).

Also it is internesting that if Alpina hasn't recommened the b2s package for cs and csi, why did they changed their mind, and offered it for your non csl e9 ?

Anyway what do you think about the b3 engine photos ? Is it possible that it is a real b3 engine ?

Yes the customer could bring his car to Alpina and get a menu of choices depending on the year as they began to offer more and more through the 70's. In the case of my car, possibly the former owner could have had some connection to Alpina or wanted the most that Alpina could offer so he went for the B2S package. Remember my E3 was converted in 1979 after Alpina had already become independent in 1978 so they were still offering modifications to earlier cars.
As for the non CSL conversions, its just a guess, as most of the non CSL e9's that we see come up for sale are B2 not B2S cars and Im quite sure that once the CSL was produced Alpina for their own testing purposes, didnt bother with the other E9 variants.

 

[Bwana]

Were the injected versions D-Jetronic? If not, what were they?

 

[jranmann]

Thanks Feri for that definitive info. and pictures...!

Ran

 

[mpgandco]

Does anyone know what color the 6 "client requests" were for the CSL Series Two Batmobiles 4355001 to 4355057? I know 2 of the 6 Where Special Ordered in "Swartz" #086 but what color were the other 4 "Client Request" cars?
Does the Paint code 98 and 99 on "Client Request" just mean Special Color and they aren't really BMW Paint codes?I checked all my Original CS/CSL Color charts and couldn't find code # 98 or #99