cottage industry - headers

rsporsche

rsporsche

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if anybody is interested in forming a cottage industry - and owning the jigs, instructions and sample headers from stahl ... let me know, so far there are 4 or 5 people that have expressed interest. please contact me off line by PM

thanks
scott
 
The key data is

1) what the total cost (material, labor, overhead) to make one header, of the various applications, from the tooling
2) what are the likely selling prices, should be less than what stahl charges today.

Then you'll know if it's viable as a self sustaining business
 
bfeng said:
1) what the total cost (material, labor, overhead) to make one header, of the various applications, from the tooling
2) what are the likely selling prices, should be less than what stahl charges today.

Then you'll know if it's viable as a self sustaining business
Click to expand...

John,

you are absolutely correct about knowing the viability. i honestly do NOT know the answers to your questions. if you figure that stahl can reduce the price by over 20% when selling 6, you know they are making money.

so here's one thought for consideration. if 6 or so people were going to spend 800+ dollars for a set of headers, we can own the jigs, etc. for that. more people, the initial investment goes down. but lets say we bought the jigs, instructions and sample headers, and find somebody to make 6 sets, with the thought of making more ... and lets say our cost is roughly 600 bucks to manufacture with no profit ... then we own the designs for less than 1/2 the price.

you have to think that stahl is an "old school" shop. things done right, but not necessarily in the most modern way. that's a guess - if you have the flat plate parts made in a good metal shop. then contract the tubing and welding - hopefully by adding a little volume to another shop that has left over / unused capacity ... to get things going.

i'm open to thoughts ... i just don't want to see these designs disappear. not really looking for another job ... i've got a busy day job already.
 
Question

If Stahl is motivated to sell their jigs for $5k, they might be willing to educate us on what it costs to make a header in hours and/or $:
Labor to bend primaries
Labor to produce the flange
Labor to produce the collector
Labor to setup and weld the assembly
Labor for misc/finishing

Materials:

Maybe they have a training manual for their own labor that would give us something by which to get labor quoted?

The welding ... I'd guess it's more of a commodity as we have a fair number of custom bike shops around here that do custom tig welding. One of them welded 3 stainless header primaries onto a flange for me for less than I would've thought possible. Everything was already tacked in place, so the job was to just to run a weld around each primary/flange joint. I think it was something like $30 and the welds were good enough to be aircraft quality.

Plus, it would be interesting to know how CNC bending compares with manual bending as a function of unit volumes.

Finally, maybe it'd be worth it to ask Stahl if they can send pics of the jigs so we can show them to people who bend and weld exhaust systems for a living. This might give us a better idea of what labor would be.
 
Just a simple look at a Google search for tubing bending machines yielded prices from $6700 to $8900.
Just saying............
 
Talk to stahl

This is why we should talk to stahl

If they want to sell the jigs then they should be motivated to educate the potential buyer with help figuring out how to use the tooling to produce headers.
 
SoCal Vintage BMW Meet is this weekend in LA. Seems like the right place to see who might be interested--Carl, Peter, Ireland, etc.
 
I've used Stahl headers on several BMW 6-cyl applications for the past 30 years; never had a problem; they've always fit, performed, etc.

If you are so paranoid, go by a Honda!!!!

At a certain point, if you are willing to own-up to owning an E9, then
you've got to pay for what you're getting or investing in!!

I bought my beach house in San Clemente, CA in 1971 for $17,000! It's worth at current market price upwards of $700,000! That's reality!!

A friend of mine in the early '80s bought and restored a BMW 507 for under $15,000 and sold it after a thorough restoration for $35,000 and it had provenance!

Times change, if a Stahl header is too expensive then you don't have the right automobile for your aspirations..

Time for a reality check.

Sorry, but that's reality!

As my 95 year old mother's exercise shirt says, JUST DO IT! :razz::razz::razz:
 
windnsea: it is not so much about the money as it is to preserve the jigs and talent so that those in the future will still be able to get "Stahl" headers for their BMW.
 
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