CSL soon to be on BAT

tferrer

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If you read the comments, it was purchased by someone with minimal knowledge of what a CSL is. He said it was a nastalgic purchase because he learned to drive in a 3.0 Si and it had the same interior... Enough said.

This is the power of BaT. You tap into a global base with limited knowledge, unlimited funds and have the ability to purchase from the couch on a whim due to nastalga. Sounds like the buyer will drive it, so good for him.

The question to me is what would this type of CSL see at an auction with a knowledgeable audience? I'm not sure it would see anywhere near 280 but I could be wrong.

And while I'm pondering the universe, what would a "true" lightweight CSL (not a carbed ultralight) bring on BaT? Would it be discounted because it didn't have the creature comforts for the cars and coffee crowd?
 

IMSA-CSL

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When I currently see the prices on BaT I am shocked and delighted at the same time.
I own a collection of 11 rare BMWs. I enjoy owning these cars, looking for the missing parts if necessary and selling a few things now and then when I have found something even more interesting.

My wife would like me to sell everything, but I can't do her that favor, because I would probably be a very unhappy person afterwards.

At these prices, of course, you start to fantasize what your own vehicle might be worth.

Since one year I am owner of an original ALPINA B3 with 250 hp from 1971. The car was built at BMW at the end of 1971 and rebuilt at ALPINA for another 3 months before the car left Germany as an export version.

The car is with me in 4th hand and has run only 116000 kilometers. The car has not been restored yet, it is not perfect but it is just fun to drive it and people give the feedback that they are happy to see such a car on the road and that is a lot of fun.

According to ALPINA, these engines were built across the series (E3, E9, E12) only about 50 times and it is probably very rare that these engines are still in an original vehicle. But an E3 3.0S is just no E9 3.0 CS or CSL although he drives fantastically.

These cars are certainly luxury items and the rarity makes here certainly also the price. I have also met enough drivers of rare Porsches and Ferraris as well as the carriers of very expensive luxury watches. Some are really interested in the technology and history but a not insignificant part has the things simply because they are expensive.

Many greetings
Andreas
 

merdad

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When I currently see the prices on BaT I am shocked and delighted at the same time.
I own a collection of 11 rare BMWs. I enjoy owning these cars, looking for the missing parts if necessary and selling a few things now and then when I have found something even more interesting.

My wife would like me to sell everything, but I can't do her that favor, because I would probably be a very unhappy person afterwards.

At these prices, of course, you start to fantasize what your own vehicle might be worth.

Since one year I am owner of an original ALPINA B3 with 250 hp from 1971. The car was built at BMW at the end of 1971 and rebuilt at ALPINA for another 3 months before the car left Germany as an export version.

The car is with me in 4th hand and has run only 116000 kilometers. The car has not been restored yet, it is not perfect but it is just fun to drive it and people give the feedback that they are happy to see such a car on the road and that is a lot of fun.

According to ALPINA, these engines were built across the series (E3, E9, E12) only about 50 times and it is probably very rare that these engines are still in an original vehicle. But an E3 3.0S is just no E9 3.0 CS or CSL although he drives fantastically.

These cars are certainly luxury items and the rarity makes here certainly also the price. I have also met enough drivers of rare Porsches and Ferraris as well as the carriers of very expensive luxury watches. Some are really interested in the technology and history but a not insignificant part has the things simply because they are expensive.

Many greetings
Andreas
On the other hand, my wife always gets upset at me when I sell one of my cars. My friends who knew that this was my car at one time, telling me, aren’t you upset you sold it? But, that was 20 years ago, and I am happy that the car is reaching it’s potential.
 

craterface

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If you read the comments, it was purchased by someone with minimal knowledge of what a CSL is. He said it was a nastalgic purchase because he learned to drive in a 3.0 Si and it had the same interior... Enough said.

This is the power of BaT. You tap into a global base with limited knowledge, unlimited funds and have the ability to purchase from the couch on a whim due to nastalga. Sounds like the buyer will drive it, so good for him.

The question to me is what would this type of CSL see at an auction with a knowledgeable audience? I'm not sure it would see anywhere near 280 but I could be wrong.

And while I'm pondering the universe, what would a "true" lightweight CSL (not a carbed ultralight) bring on BaT? Would it be discounted because it didn't have the creature comforts for the cars and coffee crowd?
Respectfully, I don’t know if I can agree. I think 285 all in is not so crazy. It’s a solid car, as Merdad has testified from his ownership period, and hunting down the correct wheels (or filling in the extra holes on the current one), front grill, steering wheel, etc can all be done over time.

This car was 200k a year ago, sure. But my house has gone up 30 percent in a year, you can’t buy a new Porsche GT car at MSRP anywhere, the government is printing money like it never has before, etc. Inflation is very real these days.

The 1973 Porsche 911 RS Touring has been over 500k for years, and a CSL fills the same niche IMO. A lightweight RS (about 200 made) is a million bucks.

This CSL can be used for its driving pleasure right away, and would be welcomed on a lot if great rallies like Coppersate, Going to the Sun, etc. There is value in this.

To me, it is a better “investment” than some of the restomod e9s, because a CSL is special to BMWs racing history. Only 4 percent of e9s are CSLs, and rarity brings value.

I would think good carb early lightweights would be 350 plus and Batmobiles the same.

German cars generally are hot right now. Two years ago I had a chance to buy a restored 356A Normal for under 100k. Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

All that said, for me I would rather have the car than the money right now, so I will keep it.
 
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tferrer

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Respectfully, I don’t know if I can agree. I think 285 all in is not so crazy. It’s a solid car, as Merdad has testified from his ownership period, and hunting down the correct wheels (or filling in the extra holes on the current one), front grill, steering wheel, etc can all be done over time.

This car was 200k a year ago, sure. But my house has gone up 30 percent in a year, you can’t buy a new Porsche GT car at MSRP anywhere, the government is printing money like it never has before, etc. Inflation is very real these days.

The 1973 Porsche 911 RS Touring has been over 500k for years, and a CSL fills the same niche IMO. A lightweight RS (about 200 made) is a million bucks.

This CSL can be used for its driving pleasure right away, and would be welcomed on a lot if great rallies like Coppersate, Going to the Sun, etc. There is value in this.

To me, it is a better “investment” than some of the restomod e9s, because a CSL is special to BMWs racing history. Only 3-4 percent of e9s are CSLs, and rarity brings value.

I would think good carb early lightweights would be 350 plus and Batmobiles the same.

German cars generally are hot right now. Two years ago I had a chance to buy a restored 356A Normal for under 100k. Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

All that said, for me I would rather have the car than the money right now, so I will keep it.
I agree on most points but there are certain details on this car that show a lack of attention to the finer points. Some of the obvious bondo areas around the trunk is something that stood out to me as items that aren't so easily addressed, you should not see on a car of this alleged pedigree and value. Another point I'll make, and I made in the forum was that this car was purchased essentially by a CSL neophyte. Now, that may be a valid market to sell into but my question remains. What would it bring in an on-site auction with a knowledgeable buying pool. We may not ever find out as BaT has become a major force but I believe the "real" market for these special vehicles will always be the informed, knowledgeable collector/buyer. Those buyers didn't bid this vehicle up, the cars and coffee crowd bid this particular vehicle up.

All of this is just my 2 cents, which is about what it's worth but I did want to see what others thought and start the dialog...
 

Dick Steinkamp

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Another point I'll make, and I made in the forum was that this car was purchased essentially by a CSL neophyte. Now, that may be a valid market to sell into but my question remains. What would it bring in an on-site auction with a knowledgeable buying pool. We may not ever find out as BaT has become a major force but I believe the "real" market for these special vehicles will always be the informed, knowledgeable collector/buyer.
(bold added)

I think that would be too much of a hypothetical to consider it the "real" market.

Would this pool of informed and knowledgeable collectors actually be in the market for a CSL? Would they have the funds available to purchase one? Would they already own one and not desire a second? Would they have owned one in the past but have moved on to other interests?

IMO, the "real" market is made up of those that desire one and have the funds available to buy one and are actually making purchases. CSL expertise is not a requirement. It's this group that will set the market value for any collector car. What the informed, knowledgeable collector/buyers determine the car is worth is interesting, but doesn't determine market value. Actual sales do.
 

Mal CSL 3.0

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Respectfully, I don’t know if I can agree. I think 285 all in is not so crazy. It’s a solid car, as Merdad has testified from his ownership period, and hunting down the correct wheels (or filling in the extra holes on the current one), front grill, steering wheel, etc can all be done over time.

This car was 200k a year ago, sure. But my house has gone up 30 percent in a year, you can’t buy a new Porsche GT car at MSRP anywhere, the government is printing money like it never has before, etc. Inflation is very real these days.

The 1973 Porsche 911 RS Touring has been over 500k for years, and a CSL fills the same niche IMO. A lightweight RS (about 200 made) is a million bucks.

This CSL can be used for its driving pleasure right away, and would be welcomed on a lot if great rallies like Coppersate, Going to the Sun, etc. There is value in this.

To me, it is a better “investment” than some of the restomod e9s, because a CSL is special to BMWs racing history. Only 4 percent of e9s are CSLs, and rarity brings value.

I would think good carb early lightweights would be 350 plus and Batmobiles the same.

German cars generally are hot right now. Two years ago I had a chance to buy a restored 356A Normal for under 100k. Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

All that said, for me I would rather have the car than the money right now, so I will keep it.
Good points Craterface.

….6 years ago I bought a CSL. At the time contributors on this forum picked flaws. (green screwdrivers not red in toolbox, and "good luck at that price" etc).

Anyway I bought the car having been in the market for a CSL for many years.

Had I waited for that unicorn CSL, perfect in every way, to come to market I would still be waiting. In the meantime I have enjoyed tinkering and improving various little things which is half the fun of owning a classic car. And what I paid, which felt like a lot at the time, looks more modest now too.

Good on this guy for spending US$285k on his beautiful CSL. It looked really nice, and Polaris is the classic German Silver so the ultimate CSL colour imho.

There is a great article in a recent Octane, which gives high praise to the CSL. These are still cheaper than the 911 RS, and almost as good a car.

Octaine.jpeg
 
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