Deciding on which E9 - is my logic sound?

G

GDI

Member
Messages
19
Reaction score
3
Location
Connecticut, USA
First, here is what I am looking for at this time - a nice good condition reliable Sunday driver, preferably close to original condition. that will serve as a stable mate for my '2Tii. I am not looking for a show car, nor do I need to have fastest edition of an E9.

I had really thought a nice (think Average Hagerty condition) 2800CS would suit me fine and they seem to be relatively common. Then the 2000C and CS started growing on me. I had a chance to buy a decent one 30 years ago for peanuts that a guy had in his garage on my block, but damn that nose was ugly! Now I find I can really appreciate that look - it is very 60's Euro-stylish. I know they are probably very rare in the US, so it may not be a practical option at all.

So, I assume the best value for a driver (even preserved, but patina car) lies with the 2800CS for a 6 cylinder and the 4 cylinder models. Is my logic correct and I can find these for significantly less dollars that the 3.0 Versions and still get 90% of the fun and style? Should I write off finding a good 2000C/CS in the US at this point?

Thanks for tolerating a noob...
 
Last edited:
There’s a huge difference in a 6 cylinder vs a 4 cylinder car. The 4 is fun but runs out of steam and is busy. The six is robust and elegant, it’s more suited for grand touring. Since you already have a fun 4 cylinder I would consider a 6 for your E9.

2800cs vs 3.0cs. In stock form have very similar performance figures. Some would argue that the 2.8l engine is smoother than the 3.0l. The big difference between the two variants is the brakes. 2800cs has solid front rotors with rear drums. Though adequate they require more pedal effort and fade quickly with spirited driving while the 3.0cs has vented front and rear rotors and requires less effort to stop and has very little to no fade in spirited driving. From every other aspect the two models are virtually identical.

If it were up to me I would go with a 6 cylinder, preferably a 3.0 or a 2800 that’s been upgraded with later brakes. A 5 speed is a huge and worthy upgrade as well and we all love more power, (don’t fool yourself). More power = more fun = more smiles!!!
 
Yes, I'd say your logic is generally correct. I have owned my 2800CS for 30+ years, and have had a lot of fun with it.

My only comment on your thinking is that the classic car market is not efficient. Just because Hagerty (and Sports Car Market) assign a lower price to 2800's, doesn't mean that the ones you find for sale will adhere to their pricing. In practice, I haven't observed as significant a price differential between the two displacements as the published pricing guides would lead you to believe.

And yes, examples of the 2000CS are much more scarce. Many on the market here in the US are quite rough. Your best bet for finding a decent example is probably to import one from Europe.
 
OCCoupe said:
@GDI you may have noticed that both myself and Jay have ignored part of your question, “is my logic sound?” That sort of thinking has no place in an enthusiast car form. Let’s chalk it up to noob mistake.
Click to expand...

Well, I did make the mistake of writing: "I'd say your logic is generally correct", but Mike is right - logic doesn't enter into these decisions. Logically you should buy a used Toyota and invest the excess capital in a AAA bond.
 
Thanks to you both! I know I can't place too much reliance on the pricing services and I know condition is everything- but it is somewhere to start. I had a Bavaria and it was very very smooth - once I replaced the Zeniths with a pair of Webers! Of course I wouldn't be picky if I found a good 3 liter in my price range.

Regrading logic, I think that was poor wording on my part!
 
Do you mind if I ask where you would be comfortable price wise? Don’t be shy, most of us aren’t here to buy completely restored diamonds. Sometimes one will pop up that needs tlc but has all the right qualities to become a diamond.
 
I have owned a 1600(my only brand new BMW purchased in 1971) a 2800CS, four Bavarias in various states, and four 3.0 CS in various states. I sold my last coupe, the best of the litter when it was time. No regrets, no remorse. It was time. Bought a 2002, 1976, pristine, from a guy here on E9.

Over those many years I have come to appreciate, perhaps love, the 2000CS. The nose is an acquired taste but more "interesting" than the 3.0CS's. I can hear the howling.
But the interior is so classically beautiful. Exactly what they should have carried over to the 3.0 and 2800.

Europe is probably your best bet for a 2000CS, but the lower overall price makes importing feasible.

So many choices.
 
Since M10s and M30s are considered among the best 4 and 6 cylinder engines ever made I like the idea of having one of each. I love my 2002 on the back roads but my e9 is a more refined highway tourer (especially with FI and 5 speed).
It really comes down to your budget.
Buy the best car you can afford. (heard that one before?)
Like your tii, e9 values are climbing.
You’ve come to the right forum. Lots of good people and knowledge here.
Good Luck!
 
You have a 2002Tii so you have the M10 engine covered. Highly recommend either calling or emailing VSR in Bedford, NH. http://www.vsr1.com. They may know of a 2800CS, 3.0CS, or 3.0 CSi which may be available.

Where in Connecticut? We lived in Darien from 1994-2006.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GDI
OCCoupe said:
Do you mind if I ask where you would be comfortable price wise? Don’t be shy, most of us aren’t here to buy completely restored diamonds. Sometimes one will pop up that needs tlc but has all the right qualities to become a diamond.
Click to expand...

I am hoping to be in the mid-40's.
 
Dear noob - As Mike notes, there is not a big performance diffence between the 2800 and 3.0; and we have had a handful of debates here about whether the 2800 should really be considered a lesser car. I am firmly in the camp that says it should not.

I think there are a couple of keys buying tips: rust is by far the most expensive thing to fix on these cars. Best to avoid rust. All the mechanical stuff is easy to address, as is the electrical and hydraulic stuff. Interior and trim parts can be either difficult to find or expensive, so another tip is to buy a complete car.

I tend to think of buying a coupe as being either capital intensive or labor intensive. You can find a very nice coupe quickly, if you are less price sensitive. I call that the capital intensive approach. I would put your budget in the more labor intensive end of the market. By this I mean you may need to be patient. I highly recommend that you spend some time looking at the cars for sale section of this forum. Look at the things people have pointed out and then look at the pictures so you can be familiar with issues folks are raising. Also, look at the comments on pricing, and pay attention to the comments about sellers to avoid. These things will make you a more informed buyer.

You may need to spend a chunk of your spare time attending BMW car events, chatting with folks in the e9 community, travelling to look at cars, etc. I did this, and ended up spending three years looking for my car. These things too make you a more informed buyer.

One last important tip - don't be affraid to ask people here for help. The depth of knowledge on this forum is amazing, and there are a bunch of very generous people who will respond to requests for assistance. And we had a guy here a few months ago who thought he found a good deal on a coupe and atempted to but it sight unseen, relying on some supposedly certified escrow arrangement. He lost his money. I'm guessing he didn't want to publicize his good deal and have someone buy the car out from under him. I am pretty sure we would have identified the scam if he had asked someone here to look at the car for him.

Happy hunting.
 
GDI said:
I am hoping to be in the mid-40's.
Click to expand...

I would agree with Ohmess: your mid 40's budget puts you in the "labor intensive" category. Nothing wrong with that, but as others have advised, seek out cars that need mechanical or interior work - not major rust repair. Major rust repair will put you underwater quickly.

Ohmess said:
we have had a handful of debates here about whether the 2800 should really be considered a lesser car. I am firmly in the camp that says it should not.
Click to expand...

I recently received my 2021 edition of Sports Car Market's "Pocket Price Guide". Of course, I immediately looked up the makes/models that I own. I was annoyed to see that they had put a median value of $27,000 on my '70 2800 CS, but assigned a median value of $49K to the 3.0. This is what I was referring to in post #3 when I said that in the real world, 2800 and 3.0 values weren't so different. Decent coupes haven't been priced at $27K since about 2007, so I can't imagine where SCM got their data.
 
Last edited:
If I was in the market for an E9 in that price range, I'd be taking a look at this one...

1970 2800 CS (San Diego, CA)

This is a California car which I bought from IS3FIFTY (forum member) back in 2017. My priorities have changed so sadly I have to sell the car. IS3FIFTY bought it from another forum member back in 2010. It was sold new in Los Angeles and has always been registered in California. It was always...
e9coupe.com e9coupe.com
 
@GDI I’d have a look at this car in San Diego.

https://e9coupe.com/forum/threads/1970-2800-cs-san-diego-ca.35897/

Perhaps one of the local forum members would take a look at it for you for a nominal fee. Hmmm who could that member be? Oh maybe @HBChris

@GDI this car has been for sale for some time. Mainly due to not so good (lazy) marketing skills and COVID. I would guess that the seller would be willing to come off his asking price at this point.

If it were my car it would go back to being Nevada and it would get a black interior.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GDI
Aside from the wheels, that San Diego E9 checks a lot of boxes. Needs an air dam, of course.;) I'd have to name that one Carmen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GDI
Bollocks to Hagerty (my coupe is with them b/c they're cheap). IMHO they flog the "collector" market with "enthusiasm" but their real interest is in collecting premiums and jacking the prices of this or that to exploit the owners.

Sour grapes department: there seems be some ongoing stratification of this list. It has come to appear to me, that many/most are on the high-dollar scale, or maybe I'm a holdout from an earlier, less expensive time. No problem with a few pristine-coupe owners, but I relate more to those with grease under their nails, and fortunately for me we have a goodly number of them onboard.

On the surface your story seems a lot like mine: I also passed on a 2000CS many years ago; owned 15 2002s including '72 and '74 tii's, several dozen other somewhat more recent Bimmers. I've kept my CS through a lot of cars but nowadays I mostly ride my 2010 K1300GT, which is supposed to be able to do things a coupe cannot, such as zero to 60 in 3 (not that I ...).

Happy New Year and good health to you and yours in 2021. Hope your impending purchase brings you a lot of satisfaction, in whatever currency it is denominated for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GDI
Ohmess said:
Dear noob - As Mike notes, there is not a big performance diffence between the 2800 and 3.0; and we have had a handful of debates here about whether the 2800 should really be considered a lesser car. I am firmly in the camp that says it should not.

I think there are a couple of keys buying tips: rust is by far the most expensive thing to fix on these cars. Best to avoid rust. All the mechanical stuff is easy to address, as is the electrical and hydraulic stuff. Interior and trim parts can be either difficult to find or expensive, so another tip is to buy a complete car.

I tend to think of buying a coupe as being either capital intensive or labor intensive. You can find a very nice coupe quickly, if you are less price sensitive. I call that the capital intensive approach. I would put your budget in the more labor intensive end of the market. By this I mean you may need to be patient. I highly recommend that you spend some time looking at the cars for sale section of this forum. Look at the things people have pointed out and then look at the pictures so you can be familiar with issues folks are raising. Also, look at the comments on pricing, and pay attention to the comments about sellers to avoid. These things will make you a more informed buyer.

You may need to spend a chunk of your spare time attending BMW car events, chatting with folks in the e9 community, travelling to look at cars, etc. I did this, and ended up spending three years looking for my car. These things too make you a more informed buyer.

One last important tip - don't be affraid to ask people here for help. The depth of knowledge on this forum is amazing, and there are a bunch of very generous people who will respond to requests for assistance. And we had a guy here a few months ago who thought he found a good deal on a coupe and atempted to but it sight unseen, relying on some supposedly certified escrow arrangement. He lost his money. I'm guessing he didn't want to publicize his good deal and have someone buy the car out from under him. I am pretty sure we would have identified the scam if he had asked someone here to look at the car for him.

Happy hunting.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that thoughtful reply !

I am certainly familiar with the need to find a car with minimal rust, after owning a couple of '02s! I understand the E9s are no better, if not worse, with regard to rust. I like your capital vs labor intensive comparison. I am willing to put in the effort to find a good car and will call on this group to help. I bought my tii sight unseen last year and used BMW 2002 FAQ to help vet the car. Several members were familiar with the car and gave me their opinions. I had it PPI'd and shipped and I only had one surprise - the heater fan didn't work. That sucked but the rest of the car was solid. I will not be shy in asking for help!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top