E9 3.0 csi paperswork
- Thread starter Tullie
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- 3.0csi paperwork
Every country is different.
In the USA where this site is located- what you are suggesting might be considered illegal.
Even more so - this site is prideful of how we follow the straight and narrow path of legitimacy and fairness: that is the needle of our moral compass.
Be wary of anyone offering documents outside of USA laws.
In the USA where this site is located- what you are suggesting might be considered illegal.
Even more so - this site is prideful of how we follow the straight and narrow path of legitimacy and fairness: that is the needle of our moral compass.
Be wary of anyone offering documents outside of USA laws.
So I just have to scrap this completely perfect shell and parts?
To be clear: it is not stolen, that's already checked by the police.
They have to manually search through the records of every car that has been registered in the 71-72 period since there is no digital database.
I understand your opinion but this is about saving a lost car, not about changing documents because of a stolen/illegal activity purpose.
In my opinion every car has to be as original as possible.
Here in Belgium, everything has to be period correct in order to get it on the road. If I don't have paperwork regarding a 3.0csi I have to fit an engine with the same displacement but make it pass modern test specs... In other words impossible because the engine has to be supplied for this model otherwise it is impossible to get it registered.
I understand that laws in the USA are wayyyyy more flexible about getting a car on the road... Even if you put a big turbo diesel in it, as long if it's properly build it's ok.
In Belgium you can't even change the tire size more than 1 size over the original or you would get a disapproval for driving it on the road.
I understand the 'goal' of getting everything as clean as possible regarding paperwork on this site.
But isn't this site here in the first place to help get as many E9's back on the road again?
If it is considered an inappropriate request, feel free to delete this thread but I find this to be a great resource to get to my dream of putting this car back together.
To be clear: it is not stolen, that's already checked by the police.
They have to manually search through the records of every car that has been registered in the 71-72 period since there is no digital database.
I understand your opinion but this is about saving a lost car, not about changing documents because of a stolen/illegal activity purpose.
In my opinion every car has to be as original as possible.
Here in Belgium, everything has to be period correct in order to get it on the road. If I don't have paperwork regarding a 3.0csi I have to fit an engine with the same displacement but make it pass modern test specs... In other words impossible because the engine has to be supplied for this model otherwise it is impossible to get it registered.
I understand that laws in the USA are wayyyyy more flexible about getting a car on the road... Even if you put a big turbo diesel in it, as long if it's properly build it's ok.
In Belgium you can't even change the tire size more than 1 size over the original or you would get a disapproval for driving it on the road.
I understand the 'goal' of getting everything as clean as possible regarding paperwork on this site.
But isn't this site here in the first place to help get as many E9's back on the road again?
If it is considered an inappropriate request, feel free to delete this thread but I find this to be a great resource to get to my dream of putting this car back together.
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Wladek
Well-Known Member
Ok, let just say you will find papers for csi, in that case you will want to put vin number from the documents on the firewall or vin plate & that is for sure illegal in the whole world.
day66
Well-Known Member
In the Uk, the crucial question would be whether the original stamped in chassis number remains and other significant components - if so, registration should be possible with an age related number backed up with some evidence of production date from the manufacturer (that certain used to be the practice, I did it many times). The registration authorities here may have become more demanding recently, and you do hear the occasional horror story, but a lack of documentation can be overcome.
If the chassis number is missing from the bulkhead, then any “solution” will involve some shady dealing - and while that may well go on in the wider world, I doubt any of the contributors on here would condone it.
If the chassis number is missing from the bulkhead, then any “solution” will involve some shady dealing - and while that may well go on in the wider world, I doubt any of the contributors on here would condone it.
What happened to the original VIN stamped into your shell? If the police have checked it, it would mean that you still have a VIN stamped on your car, correct? What's the VIN? Was the car ever registered in Belgium before?
If the original VIN is still on the shell and hasn't been tampered with, and there's no stolen record or anything like that, there's usually a way to get it registered/back on the road even if you don't have the papers from when it was last registered, but it's hard to tell what options you have since all countries have their own specific rules and/or loop holes.
Best would be to talk to other classic car enthusiasts in Belgium.
@Belgiumbarry ?
If the original VIN is still on the shell and hasn't been tampered with, and there's no stolen record or anything like that, there's usually a way to get it registered/back on the road even if you don't have the papers from when it was last registered, but it's hard to tell what options you have since all countries have their own specific rules and/or loop holes.
Best would be to talk to other classic car enthusiasts in Belgium.
@Belgiumbarry ?
The licencing authorities often need to see the particular data about the type of the car, sometimes from a similar title or certificate of conformity. If that helps, I can send you a copy of a German CSi Title where the data is listed up. [email protected]
Hi, if you want I can try that and show the police all the info about the 'specific model' thanks in advance, I'll sen you an email @Gerrit
@others Unfortunately if you don't live in Belgium you don't really understand what the problem is with Belgium's paperwork's. I know that in the whole wide world this would be not an issue if you can show other 'evidencence' of the car... Unfortunately, Belgium is an exception.
Just search for Belgium system of politics in YouTube... Will blow your mind. And this only becomes worse the further and deeper you go into the system - cars/real estate/and so on
I understand this would be 'not by the rules' but if there aren no other options the car will be useless and scrapped unless someone buys it for parts or registers it in another country than Belgium.
I don't think the assessment of the U.S. is fair or accurate. Bureaucrats are the same everywhere. The original goal is to ensure all cars are registered, have insurance, tags to identify the car/owner and to confirm the car was correctly obtained.
My options are: fitting an engine with the same specifics as original but with the current environmental check (which is impossible in. Belgium)
Building an electric one isn't possible because the engine supplied originally has to be the same.
+ If you don't have the papers, it will be 'first registered 'today' so you will pay taxes like a new car with this engine size and emissions which aren't even on the charts anymore in Belgium.
So that it, no other options
I think the request for an affidavit that replaces the missing paperwork should be made to BMW, not to a fellow BMW owner. Then have it notarized, etc, etc, and submit to the authorities.
Ever tried that with BMW?
If I walk into my dealership and not buy a new car they are NOT HELPFUL AT ALL
I meant you contact BMW Classic who exist to support the classic BMW community.
The dealer is not BMW and lives from sales commissions and service, none of which you bring.
Some info here:
Bmw classic certificate
Car/owner verification = good thing I am surprised these beautiful companies don't hire out just 'one' dude to go and visit every chassis and verify the details.... The cost would be on the companies neck, but Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW etc... With such rich histories.... One would think...
e9coupe.com
I think something may be getting lost in the translation, but this is what it SOUNDS like you want to do...
Obtain a valid title and registration documents from another CSi E9.
Change the serial numbers on your car (firewall, engine compartment plate, plate over steering column, engine) to match the "new" documents
Present your car with the altered numbers and the newly obtained documents to the authorities in order to obtain a clear Belgium title for your car.
If this is what you want to do, it is illegal and unethical.
If it is something else please explain more fully.
Obtain a valid title and registration documents from another CSi E9.
Change the serial numbers on your car (firewall, engine compartment plate, plate over steering column, engine) to match the "new" documents
Present your car with the altered numbers and the newly obtained documents to the authorities in order to obtain a clear Belgium title for your car.
If this is what you want to do, it is illegal and unethical.
If it is something else please explain more fully.
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I meant you contact BMW Classic who exist to support the classic BMW community.
The dealer is not BMW and lives from sales commissions and service, none of which you bring.
Some info here:
Bmw classic certificate
Car/owner verification = good thing I am surprised these beautiful companies don't hire out just 'one' dude to go and visit every chassis and verify the details.... The cost would be on the companies neck, but Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW etc... With such rich histories.... One would think...
Already did that and got a 2 sentence email back. With 'delivery date and manufacturing date + color code'
They don't provide the 2-page documents as shown in the thread anymore.
Probably the first thing you did but did you look in our vin database, maybe you can find out about the previous owner?
But has it been registered in Belgium before? Then it should be a matter of digging for that information, and I don't think the police is the right place for that but maybe in Belgium?
Over here we have a nationwide archive for this type of stuff, you just send them any clues you have and the VIN and wait a few weeks while they dig up / scan through microfilms for anything they can find from the past, as owners, addresses, info about which years it was registered and had taxes paid etc etc.
@Tullie - hate to say this, but this sounds like a huge problem, with an easy solution. Sell this dang chassis to any other surrounding country, someone in the states, etc. Let someone else deal with it that has a little more "lenient" country in restoring older vehicles.
Put that money towards an already built CSi. Probably save you a ton of money anyways, not to mention the headache. I think we all appreciate your situation but there are other ways to skin that CSi.
Put that money towards an already built CSi. Probably save you a ton of money anyways, not to mention the headache. I think we all appreciate your situation but there are other ways to skin that CSi.
A short cautionary tale about a guy in Los Angeles named Tom who asked members on this board to sell him a title so that his salvaged car could lose that stigma after his insurance company paid him off.
We on this board all ran like hell amid his claims that it was no problem and he would tell any future buyer what had transpired so it would be “all good”
Fast forward to last year when that car showed up at my shop for work after Tom’s demise and subsequent purchase by my client with TWO titles…. With my friend at the California Department of Justice who handles DMV cases- the client finally found out which car he owned.
Multiple titles are not fun. Don’t go there.
We on this board all ran like hell amid his claims that it was no problem and he would tell any future buyer what had transpired so it would be “all good”
Fast forward to last year when that car showed up at my shop for work after Tom’s demise and subsequent purchase by my client with TWO titles…. With my friend at the California Department of Justice who handles DMV cases- the client finally found out which car he owned.
Multiple titles are not fun. Don’t go there.
Agree. Or maybe move altogether to that surrounding country, ideally one where car registrations are done by some civil office, not the police...
