E9 coupe good for daily driver?

[Maxcerami]

Hi there i'm 17 years old trying to find the right coupe and this one came up on craigslist for 6900$
its a 1974


problems it has includes:
-needs new rotors, pads
-new rubbers in most spots mostly for sunroof, windows and probably trunk
-rust ate through a hole in floor pan behind the driver seat and you can see the ground
-seemed like it had a spark plug out(car seemed a little slow on the get go)
-interior was moderate~leather looked dry and the windows didn't work(rat problem?)
-needs a tune up
- loose wire and unconnected wires
-sunroof didn't work

Positives:
-new paint job
-rebuilt gearbox
-outside was immaculate
-engine looked pretty clean and had been converted to a nine blade radiator fan system
- no other notable rust beside floor pan

i really would like to know if the price is too high and also what costs are to repair the bad stuff
and if you think i should be patient and wait out for a different coupe

here are some more pictures:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/maxcerami/IMG_1129.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/maxcerami/IMG_1128.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/maxcerami/IMG_1127.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/maxcerami/IMG_1126.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/maxcerami/IMG_1125.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/maxcerami/IMG_1124.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/maxcerami/IMG_1122.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/maxcerami/IMG_1120.jpg

 

[acat2002]

Max,
First off, I'm sure you're among the minority in your age group that have the good taste to seek out timeless classics - good for you!

Sure, a coupe can be a daily driver, just be prepared to invest time and money into little repairs. The driveline on these cars are pretty bulletproof, but it's the little things (or as I call it "death by a thousand paper-cuts") that can eventually derail these cars as drivers. Such is the case with any 30+ year old car. My first car in HS was a '76 2002 (remains my favorite still after many, MANY cars) drove that car every day for three years and put well over 80k on it.

The car you posted looks nice (great color!), but otherwise it doesnt have much going for it (especially if rust has gotten out of control). There are many more knowlegable experts on this board that can attest to the fact that rust is the biggest, most expensive issue with these cars. If there is a significant hole in the driver's floorboard, you can bet with certainty that there is far more rust in the hidden places. (see the tech section of this site). Overall, (aside from paint) the car looks pretty tired and poorly maintained IMHO, so I'd keep looking unless you want to immediately sink some serious money into this car.

If you are looking for the "right" coupe, you really do need a lot of patience and time (or be willing to throw lots of money at the situation). Yeah, lots of money tends to solve for patience and time!!!!!! But then you wouldn't be richer for the experience, right?

Good luck

 

[jmackro]

Max:

acat2002 is offering you good advice. To expand on it:

- As acat2002 says, if the rust in the floor is that bad, you can be sure that there is rust elsewhere, probably in places that are structural. Repairing this is VERY costly.

- Since you live here in S. Calif. you have a LOT of coupe alternatives. Watch ebay, Craigslist, local ads, etc - you won't have to wait very long before a better car comes along.

- Do not buy a cheap car, and assume that you can make it reliable for little additional money. A cheap car generally ends up being FAR more expensive and time-consuming to get on the road than a mid-priced to expensive car. Let someone else pay for your restoration.

- The 5mph bumpers on that '74 are just hideous (ok, here's the opening for all '74 owners to flame me). In my opinion, you should look for an earlier car, with the chrome bumpers. Even if you don't care, when the time comes to sell the car, it will pay off.

- Every seller of a vehicle with major engine problems offers the excuse that "it just needs a tune up". Believe me, if that were all that it needed, the current owner would have done it before offering it for sale. Assume something more serious needs attending to. ("A/C just needs recharging" is another great line).

Good Luck! CS coupes can be daily drivers, though plan on getting door dings and chrome bumper scars from the morons who drive plastic cars.

 

[dave v. in nc]

daily driver...

Hi Max,
All of us here appreciate your taste in automobiles. The very best advice to you is to (hopefully) find someone in Socal that is well versed in the e9, that can give you an honest evaluation of the car. A new paint job isn't necessarily a posative; in the same way that the prettiest girls look best without a lot of make-up. You're not sure what is underneath otherwise... If the car has always been a Socal car, that is a posative. Check the car's pedigree/provenance as to where it has lived. Since the floorboards have some built in air conditioning, be skeptical of all sheetmetal.
Daily driver? I would say no unless you have folks that can loan you a usable car. This is a 30-something year old car that probably needs most of the things that work to be re-newed, or the car would be $10k-ish car to start with, and still need work. And I'm not even talking about the rust monster. Engines and transmissions are very durable, but at this age, there are many tired parts, if they have not been upgraded. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, Max; e9's are wonderful, dependable cars, once they have been re-newed. Getting there isn't cheap, but can be rewarding if you have patience/talent to do your own work. I have the patience, but not the wrench-turning talent, and its thus expensive to get wrench-related things done.
E9's are seductive; try not to let your emotions get the best of you, or it will get expensive. I really wish you luck in your quest; but at 17, you might want to also consider a 2002 as an easier option as a daily driver compromise. Dave V in NC

 

[x_atlas0]

I wouldn't go for an older car as a daily at all. You have to wait for parts all the time, and when you find them, they are not cheap. Plus, they were likely taken apart and put back together wrong by someone else.

You have good taste, but I really would look at a newer car as the main mode of transport. Heck, my E9 isn't, and my daily is suffering because of it.

I'd suggest a nice E30 or E34, if you want to stay in the BMW group.

Realistically, to make it as reliable as a modern car, you are talking about a fuel-injection swap, a 5 speed swap, a complete cooling system rebuild and upgrade, rebuilding the brakes and brake system, and a complete re-wire for the entire car. The harnesses aren't exactly pliable anymore. My rig, for example, has enough bad connections and shorts to cut the running voltage down to 13, when it should be about 14. All the shorts are internal, and are just fatigue fractures.

More importantly, you can't exactly just drop this car off at the shop, as no modern shop would touch one of these cars with a 10' pole.

Then, there's the very distinct possibility of you wrecking the car. I'm sorry, but a 17 year-old driver is almost certainly going to wreck, no matter how "respnsible and mature" they are. Been there, done that, seen too many dead friends. Given this car, and the vast majority of older cars, are about as safe as driving a box of spikes, it isn't exactly the best of ideas.

 

[gkb]

Agree with everything

That steering wheel looks familiar - on a Texas car sold recently with
supposed low miles - as Bluemax said it would take 200,000+ to get
the wheel looking like that unless you lived on the Tail of the Dragon.

And the rear seats? Fried in the sun or worse, water damage. Hard to get that much wear from human diererres.

And the engine bay reinforces concern.

Sooo while I applaud your taste, this example is very scary and even a well sorted e9 is better as a second car. I vote for an e30, e28 (even an M5) or e24 - same rock solid M30 engine (in the e28 and e24) and many fewer electrical and structural body issues although the e24 has some of the gene pool from the e9 and rust can occur and body parts are pricey.

 

[David]

Having spent the same money on what appears to be a similar starting point, you would do well to take the advice of others who have posted (I wish I had). At a minimum, try to get the car inspected by someone with e9 restoration experience. Let us know what city the car is in and we will help you find someone to help you inspect it.

If you are in SoCal, you may try to contact these two expert resources for more help. They may actually know the car for sale:

http://www.bimmerdoc.com (San Diego area)
http://www.coupeking.com (Los Angeles area)

Best of luck and be patient for the right car.

-David

 

[Honolulu]

some words of advice

x2 on what the above guys said. Run like hell from any suggestion of rust on a coupe. There are so many hidden places that severe structural rust can be lurking, and though parts are not unreasonably priced and in most cases still available, a new paint job hides a multitude of extremely expensive evils. It's a real red flag to find a new paint job, while certain other sections of the car are ratty. It shows that the seller's priority is only skin-deep, that he only wants a little bling and thinks that he'll find a shallow-minded newb who will drop major bucks on his lurking shitpile.

I like later bumpers. Early bumpers are about as protective as a mustache on a gigolo.

Old cars are for guys who know their way around mechanically. That said, my '73 is pretty damn reliable, but I have changed from an auto trans to 4-speed then a 5-speed. Could you do as much? It isn't mentally difficult, but getting the parts and the physical labor involved is quite a chore. I did it myself too.

The wife and I have several cars - too many really. She a '98 Benz, me the '73 CS, an '88 Corolla, a '87 735i, a '85 BMW K100RS motorcycle, and I have unlimited use of the neighbor's 500 SEC Benz. Of all this, I drive the Toyota most. It gets almost 27 mpg, and gas locally is $3.65 a gallon for regular. The other cars get, in order, 14 mpg, 11, 10.3 and the bike about 40. Some doubt on this cause the odometers on my CS and my bike don't work, but the numbers are typical. I like good gas mileage.

If I had only the Toyota, sure, I'd miss the rest, but I'd sleep easy knowing I got better gas mileage than almost all the other bling out there. Gas prices are only going up, too. Parts will never be cheaper. I really doubt the future of the gasoline-fueled car over the next 10 years or so, enough that I'd discourage any new car buy.

So, find a comfy not-quite-so-old car with a reputation for reliability, or expect to develop some mechanical skills yourself. And note - you'll almost never do it right the first time.

Sounds harsh, but I've always done my own work since 1970, on 7 VWs and 15-plus BMWs. So I've been there, done that, got the Tshirt, video and bumper sticker.

 

[chicane]

Hi there i'm 17 years old trying to find the right coupe and this one came up on craigslist for 6900$
its a 1974

The E9 is a fun car but this is NOT a good daily driver especially for a kid your age. You are just learning to drive and learning to drive on a 35 year old chassis with various undiscovered electrical, mechanical or even structural defects is NOT a good idea. Get a Volvo. Safe, reliable, cheap to fix.

 

[Shawn]

hey Max,

My story is somewhat like your own and after being down that path I would wait awhile. Also, I hope that the suggestions below do not discourage you from joining the E9 club at some point.

I too fell in love with the e9 at a young age (18) and bought my coupe right after high school. I paid way too much and at the time it was a rust bucket but I did not know that and the mechanicals were a nightmare. I knew from the beginning that it would NOT be a daily driver and I feel that e9's are not good daily drivers in most of the country, especially hotter/cooler areas. Although some E9 owners do use theirs daily they will all contest that the cost of ownership is high.

To make a long story short I am 36 and have had my coupe for 18 years now. It is a romantic story and I still love my coupe as the first day I drove it down the California coast. In the mean time I have completely restored my coupe. The total price tag for resto has been probably about $50K+ over the years.

So if you are looking for a reliable daily driver that will not cost a lot to maintain and be reliable then the e9 IS NOT the car for you. Trust me I have about 8 inches of receipts to confirm. But if you are looking for a hobby and side project to take out on the weekends with friends then right on! They are a blast and fun to wrench on.

My suggestion: get a Toyota or Honda and buy an E9 when you have time and funds to make a good home for this dying breed.

Thanks and good luck.

P.S. If you do get an E9 go for chrome bumpers, lowered, 16" Alpina's, hopefully a 3.5 upgrade, 5-speed, leather interior, AC model if possible, and I am partial to inka, golf and malaga. And if you want to from 0 to 100 just buy a CSL and get it all over with at once.

 

[velocewest]

Performing in my role as iconoclast and contrarian, I will now interject.

My daily drivers have generally been cars from decades prior. Among many others, I drove a Fiat X1/9 daily for five years, a '69 BMW 1600-2 for four years, a Bavaria for a year, a VW caddy for a couple years, a Euro e21 323i for two years, a '75 e12 with a built 3.5 for three years. Now, I herd a '92 Range Rover from hither to yon. Other than the e12 (an amazing, truly, totally rust free example) and the Rangie, all of those car had rust issues, and all were bought with no intention of fixing the rust. They were cosmetically acceptable, needed a little mechanical love, and cost less than a month's salary.

I'd say, why not an e9? The mechanicals are simple and, once sorted, quite reliable. Likewise, consumables like brakes and tune up parts are not expensive. Fuel economy is reasonable, and the go, stop and turn performance is up to modern conditions.

A rusty big bumper e9 is a hell of a lot better thing to steer through life in than a Corolla...

The car you've posted is perhaps a little overpriced. Arrange to take it to a qualified mechanic to get an unbiased list of problems, with a priority. At the top of the list is anything related to safety -- brakes, steering, lights. Next up is reliability -- Radiator, alternator, battery, hoses. In negotiating the sale price, I'd skip cosmetics -- the car looks fine for a few years, and again -- it's not a Corolla.

If the car is basically sound, somewhere between $5,800 and $6,300 isn't a bad price. Even if the engine is on its last leg and the transmission is in pieces, you could replace both with good used units for $500 and some of your labor. But as a negotiating point, that could carve $1,500-2,000 off the asking price.

 

[Stan]

If you can, make an appointment with Peter Sliskovich in San Pedro or Carl Nelson in La Jolla to evaluate the car for safety and to give you an idea of what you would need to do short and long term.

 

[Shawn]

Point taken Tony but it is easy to drive older cars when you are a professional mechanic........and have a passion for mechanics in general.

We do not know if this 18 year old is mechanically inclined or not. If so that changes the picture but that being said he should probably focus on a college eduaction and work instead of breaking down and wrenching on an E9 for the next XX years.

If he has unlimited time and unlimited reserves to make that E9 proper and doesn't mind daily issues in the beginning then be my guest but it is really hard suggesting any E9 for that matter as a daily driver to an 18 year old....

 

[MMercury]

post impossible to answer

This post is virtually impossible to answer.

As others have noted, there is little information regarding the driver/owner other than age and limited knowledge of the E9. The poster does not disclose what daily driving consists of, be it 1 mile trips to the malt shop or 500 mile trips over the roughest terrain available.

If there is an answer, it may as well be the same response to another common question: "Should I get the extended warranty?" Answer, how lucky are you?

I had a friend whose first car was an XKE. He spent so much time working on it, he managed to avoid all kinds of trouble that followed many of his friends. He also probably saved a lot of money since he rarely drove the car. Because of its minimal seating the car could not transport too many mischief makers and since the car was so easily identified and loud, the more responsible adults and the local constable always had an eye out. Was this car a good daily driver? Yes and No.

I would argue that even a brand new e9 might not have been the best candidate as a daily driver any more than a brand new Testarossa. Maturity and luck, like time and health are precious commodities.

 

[Maxcerami]

thank you everyone for taking time to answer this

by daily driver i mean maximum 50 miles a day on los angeles street roads
i am also mechanically inclined and love to tinker and have my own extensive woodshop in my garage.

i just recieved word that the car has 140,000 miles on it
but the engine was rebuilt at 80,000

i truly want to know what you think is formidable price for this vehicle
i was thinking 5,000

also i am willing to take the time to fix this thing and i realize it wont be an easy feat. i know how to ride a bike and take the bus so i can when it breaks down i'll be alright

 

[chicane]

thank you everyone for taking time to answer this

by daily driver i mean maximum 50 miles a day on los angeles street roads
i am also mechanically inclined and love to tinker and have my own extensive woodshop in my garage.

i just recieved word that the car has 140,000 miles on it
but the engine was rebuilt at 80,000

i truly want to know what you think is formidable price for this vehicle
i was thinking 5,000

also i am willing to take the time to fix this thing and i realize it wont be an easy feat. i know how to ride a bike and take the bus so i can when it breaks down i'll be alright

You live in Los Angeles, California? First of all the heat is not your friend with these cars (Especially considering that you will be sitting in traffic half of your life). These engines do not like to sit in traffic. Does this car have A/C?

Next, for a daily driver I think you are going to have to get a smog test. Huge obstacle. I know that vintage cars that registered as vintage and are not driven daily are exempt, you will not be exempt.

 

[E9KNZ047]

I think we have all overlooked a very important consideration for a 17 year old - these cars are chick magnets 8) - I haven't done the sums (recently) but Max may in fact save quite a lot of money. Expensive nights out to impress young women imho was and still is I suspect highly overrated.

And lets face it if the car breaksdown ( a reasonable risk initially it appears) what an opportunity backed up by a extremely valid, tried and true excuse - one that we all have used in times of dire needs of various types.

If I had a choice between my daughter heading out for the night with a respectable young man in an E9(that he devotes his weekends
restoring ) or tear arsing off on the back of a Harley - she'd be going in the E9.

 

[AndyM]

I'd say why not. . .you definitely have the right attitude.

I use my e9 as a daily driver -- almost. I would've driven one at 17 for sure. Then again, I'm a little odd when it comes to cars. I suffered with a '67 VW camper with more rust than metal as a daily driver for over four years. That was quite the chick magnet, too, believe it or not.

FYI -- no smog in CA on pre-75 and earlier. No safety inspections either (I'm not sure whether that's good or bad).

 

[TimP]

Daily driver

I'm with Velocewest . My first car was a super crappy 1963 vw bug from which I graduated to a '67 vw bus, '76 rabbit, '72 convertible bug, '54 dodge panel truck, '63 ford falcon, '61 mercury comet, among others most of which had at least some rust issues but were great daily drivers. Now in the "modern" age with a '84 volvo 240 turbo wagon.
I would love to have any one of those cars back. My brother still has the Falcon.
I say go for it. By the time he is our age the car will be perfectly restored.

 

[Upset99]

RUN...RUN...RUN

Even though there is new paint and some other work, the interior shows that she was not taken care of. You have to work on the inside...IF you do the work yourself....it will still cost you a $1000. The floorboards? The Blanks, if I remember right are about $400 and then you have to weld them in. Befere you know it, you are going to have $5Gs in it.

IMO, on these cars, spend as much as possible that you can afford now. Restoring a car is not the best deal unless you want to have the enjoyment assuming you have the money.

I bought a 74 E9 in better shape for $5gs but I have already spent over $5gs on her cosmetics but I dont mind. She had an earlier restoration with a $3G Alpine stereo system with A/C and good mechanicals, but I had her repainted plus I am upgrading her wheels (BBS RS), seats (Scheels) along with new wood.

The "big project" is the Triple 45 Weber based new rebuilt 3.5 engine with a Hartge head. I plan to do it over the next few months, but I will not install it until the present engine has problems. She runs great. Why mess with a great running car?