Hello all, just curious on everyones thoughts on resale value following upgrades/modifications that are done to the cars, although I don't know if it will matter much as I plan on keeping it for a long time once it's built. The two things that come to mind for me are body colour changes (following a ground up restoration), and interior colours (ie. custom leather upholstery) and on a more detail oriented note, things like spot weld markings as opposed to MIG welded and shaved engine bays. For anyone who cares to have read this far, i'm rebuilding a Verona red 1973 CS with a seized but numbers matching motor (Have not spent anytime exploring the cause yet), and for the most part, a very intact but aged interior. I have not reached the point where I must decide on colour and upholstery although i really do like the Verona red, i'd like a tobacco brown interior. The resale factor is not an issue to me but it was something that crossed my mind and am interested in everyone's opinions, Thanks.
E9 Value and modifications
- Thread starter hj9
- Start date
Take a look at my ad for my 74 CSi Italian Euro Coupe. Originally Polaris, kept it in the respray. Originally blue velour, now black leather. Both came from the factory. The car looks absolutely stock. Nothing is missing. But it was originally a CS now a CSi with a 3.3 engine with D-Jet that looks original but is not. Five speed, suspension/exhaust changes.
Kind of a hybrid. The way I like it. Not everyone's choice.
My point, make your own choices, the ones that satisfy you.
As for resale, a coupe like mine might command a little less than an all original CSi, same year, euro breeding.
Kind of a hybrid. The way I like it. Not everyone's choice.
My point, make your own choices, the ones that satisfy you.
As for resale, a coupe like mine might command a little less than an all original CSi, same year, euro breeding.
If you have a matching numbers engine no matter what you do don't throw it away as it limits your future options, as well as future owners.
Colour, trim etc can be changed back by a future owner, the engine can't if it's gone.
If we are talking about a US delivered CS then it's the more common variety E9 so originality may not be the main game. If it were a CSL or even a RHD CSi I'd go stock as they really are collector cars and condition + originality = value.
There would be modifications you could make to the original motor that would increase performance but not impact the value so from an originality standpoint, such as finding a set of factory Euro pistons in order to up the compression rating. Even a reversible engine swap isn't really an issue - provided you still have the original.
As Chis rightly points out it comes down to what you want to do so you can enjoy the car. However, if you will want to sell the car at some point to either re-coup costs or simply so it can go it its next custodian you should be mindful to not limit their options and therefore the value.
For example, there was on on here a while back where they deleted the C-Pillar roundels. That should be a hanging offence in my book but suffice to say it would hurt the value from the standpoint of a purchaser that wants a classic BMW. If you were going for a custom hot rod well who knows.
Hope this helps.
Colour, trim etc can be changed back by a future owner, the engine can't if it's gone.
If we are talking about a US delivered CS then it's the more common variety E9 so originality may not be the main game. If it were a CSL or even a RHD CSi I'd go stock as they really are collector cars and condition + originality = value.
There would be modifications you could make to the original motor that would increase performance but not impact the value so from an originality standpoint, such as finding a set of factory Euro pistons in order to up the compression rating. Even a reversible engine swap isn't really an issue - provided you still have the original.
As Chis rightly points out it comes down to what you want to do so you can enjoy the car. However, if you will want to sell the car at some point to either re-coup costs or simply so it can go it its next custodian you should be mindful to not limit their options and therefore the value.
For example, there was on on here a while back where they deleted the C-Pillar roundels. That should be a hanging offence in my book but suffice to say it would hurt the value from the standpoint of a purchaser that wants a classic BMW. If you were going for a custom hot rod well who knows.
Hope this helps.
my opinion varies with different situations, and others opinions may vary. if you had an original coupe that came with a very special (rare) color like turkis, granatrot, ceylon, inka ... i wouldn't change it. if you change the color of a coupe, then it needs to be a full color change ... and i think it should be an original coupe color. my coupe was originally baikal (a great color), but i love ceylon ... so even though the 2800cs didn't come in ceylon ... it should have. and its what i want. my coupe didn't come with the original engine, so we are upgrading the hell out of that - a euro b34 with megasquirt. updates that don't show, like a 5 speed are worthwhile. if, i had a numbers matching original coupe - would i have done this - excellent question, and honestly i don't know ... but i would save the original engine and do what i wanted. what i can tell you is that if you had a real CSi engine in a CSi, no reason to change it - great motor.
Well now....to my mind these cars don't seem to matter about matching numbers (except perhaps CSLs) as it appears a lot of owners 3.5 Litre the engines and 5 Speed the transmissions. As opposed to a Pagoda Roof Mercedes I have which you must keep matching numbers for your market place standing.
My E9 upon purchase was not the original engine nor G/Box and was not the original factory colour. Upon a total (and I am talking total here) restoration I upgraded to an M90/B34 engine and Tuerkis paint job. The interior was German Napa Leather (colour of my choosing) and German Square weave carpet (which is a Mercedes 230SL Carpet). The car still looks period correct in most ways but has upgrades which I like and make use of the more modern technology of today (Autronics engine management system as an example) including all the modern Paint and anti corrosion systems.
I think if you are doing a restoration it is more important to do the job thoroughly and properly ( I know it costs.... but) because in the end when you come to sell your top dollar is going to come with knowledge that you car is not a dud. I am sure if I was a buyer and paying big dollars I would be more concerned with a job done right than the car being totally original and a half baked job. My 2 cents worth .......just my opinion........see below
My E9 upon purchase was not the original engine nor G/Box and was not the original factory colour. Upon a total (and I am talking total here) restoration I upgraded to an M90/B34 engine and Tuerkis paint job. The interior was German Napa Leather (colour of my choosing) and German Square weave carpet (which is a Mercedes 230SL Carpet). The car still looks period correct in most ways but has upgrades which I like and make use of the more modern technology of today (Autronics engine management system as an example) including all the modern Paint and anti corrosion systems.
I think if you are doing a restoration it is more important to do the job thoroughly and properly ( I know it costs.... but) because in the end when you come to sell your top dollar is going to come with knowledge that you car is not a dud. I am sure if I was a buyer and paying big dollars I would be more concerned with a job done right than the car being totally original and a half baked job. My 2 cents worth .......just my opinion........see below
The one upgrade which increases value is the 265 5-speed.
Numbers matching is important yet not a deal breaker if shopping for a Coupe.
Proper & thorough rust abatement is the key to retaining the value of these cars.
When it comes to restoring/building a Coupe, document everything. If you ever decide to sell, the documentation of proper work is key to maximizing the sale price.
Build your Coupe for you, not the next owner.
Numbers matching is important yet not a deal breaker if shopping for a Coupe.
Proper & thorough rust abatement is the key to retaining the value of these cars.
When it comes to restoring/building a Coupe, document everything. If you ever decide to sell, the documentation of proper work is key to maximizing the sale price.
Build your Coupe for you, not the next owner.
First off, if you plan on keeping it for a long time like you mentioned do whatever it takes to enjoy putting miles on it! Nothing worse than a concourse restoration that never leaves the garage.
Regarding drivelines, an engine/trans swap from a 6 series almost seems to add value not detract. People really seem to respect the fuel injection, extra ponies, and the additional 5th gear.
In terms of interior, I wouldn't expect color to matter a lot but sticking with the stock "look" might be advisable. (ex: modern seats look out of place)
With color, original wins the most value but if you want to change it consider factory colors that were available before branching out further.
Have fun!
Regarding drivelines, an engine/trans swap from a 6 series almost seems to add value not detract. People really seem to respect the fuel injection, extra ponies, and the additional 5th gear.
In terms of interior, I wouldn't expect color to matter a lot but sticking with the stock "look" might be advisable. (ex: modern seats look out of place)
With color, original wins the most value but if you want to change it consider factory colors that were available before branching out further.
Have fun!
MOst updates/upgrades are reversible. The ONE thing that is extremely difficult to reverse is a color change, so be very careful what color you choose.
My opinion on color is that it should be a color that BMW offered for your year car. And choose something that is in great demand and looks good. Not a fan of Sahara or Riviera or even CHamonix.
Everything else is reversible, but can be expensive like the choice of woodgrain on the inside.
Welcome upgrades:
- 5-speed
- 3.5L engine (B35) with FI
- Vintage Recaro front seats (that have OEM-like upholstery to match the rears). Not the one w/all those buttons either.
- AC w/modern components
- Disc brakes all around (if you have a 2800)
- Suspension components (lowered springs, Bilsteins, coilovers)
- Bigger sway bars
Not so welcome:
- wild/modern color changes on both interior/exterior
- big tufted modern seats
- custom non-OEM like upholstery
- Stitched dash pads
- custom consoles
- custom sunroofs
- 18" wheels w/car not lowered (donk look)
- super shiny/goofy woodgrain. Jury is still out to me for carbon fiber
- Chrome wheelarches on a non-CSL (my pet peave)
My opinion on color is that it should be a color that BMW offered for your year car. And choose something that is in great demand and looks good. Not a fan of Sahara or Riviera or even CHamonix.
Everything else is reversible, but can be expensive like the choice of woodgrain on the inside.
Welcome upgrades:
- 5-speed
- 3.5L engine (B35) with FI
- Vintage Recaro front seats (that have OEM-like upholstery to match the rears). Not the one w/all those buttons either.
- AC w/modern components
- Disc brakes all around (if you have a 2800)
- Suspension components (lowered springs, Bilsteins, coilovers)
- Bigger sway bars
Not so welcome:
- wild/modern color changes on both interior/exterior
- big tufted modern seats
- custom non-OEM like upholstery
- Stitched dash pads
- custom consoles
- custom sunroofs
- 18" wheels w/car not lowered (donk look)
- super shiny/goofy woodgrain. Jury is still out to me for carbon fiber
- Chrome wheelarches on a non-CSL (my pet peave)
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Great point on considering changes that are easily modifiable, and to be honest i'm shocked anyone would want to delete the C pillar roundels! I don't think I will be changing the body colour to be honest, Verona looks amazing to me. It is a good point about the metal work during the restoration, I am making an effort to document the pictures of all the fabrication and rust proofing being done. Although I am miserable at sharing my progress, I commend all of the amazing threads documenting restorations. In my personal opinion I have and will always do things according to my own taste, it is a personal belief of mine to make tasteful modifications that are subtle enough that the average person would think it came as a factory option.
tasteful modifications is a bit problematic, taste is personal, so not for everyone, but who cares
generally speaking i disagree with all the changes that you can consider tasteful, i have seen the previous lists,...but europe is sometimes different, i refer to market valuations and considerations as to what is valuable
in any case i agree with @adawil2002 :
“Build your Coupe for you, not the next owner.”
additionally, it is unsure what would happen in the future with so enjoy it now that you can
generally speaking i disagree with all the changes that you can consider tasteful, i have seen the previous lists,...but europe is sometimes different, i refer to market valuations and considerations as to what is valuable
in any case i agree with @adawil2002 :
“Build your Coupe for you, not the next owner.”
additionally, it is unsure what would happen in the future with so enjoy it now that you can
jmackro
Well-Known Member
I restored a 71 280SL before buying my coupe. It was very original with all of the paperwork from new (even the window sticker from MB of Hollywood), it was all numbers matching including all of the numbered body panels. I added one thing that was not original - a Nardi wheel. At the first MB show I took it to, I took so much heat for that one change - it was unbelievable.
What I've always liked about the vintage BMW crowd is that tasteful, period correct modifications are truly appreciated. My coupe had a bunch of modifications when I bought it, bigger sway bars, Stahl headers, Recaros, BBS RSs, etc... probably all done in the eighties. When I restored it, I kept all of those and then some. I had the speaker hole filled when Madera Concepts did the Zebrano wood (also not original). The dark blue leather is a BMW color but not for an e9. It's got a five speed, later fuel injection (original rebuilt motor), Staggered BBS Style 5s, e24 style airdam, etc... I love the car and based on all of the offers I had over the years plus the 20+ Peoples Choice awards it's won, so do a lot of other people.
Like Andrew said above, I built it for myself but I'm very glad that other people like it!
What I've always liked about the vintage BMW crowd is that tasteful, period correct modifications are truly appreciated. My coupe had a bunch of modifications when I bought it, bigger sway bars, Stahl headers, Recaros, BBS RSs, etc... probably all done in the eighties. When I restored it, I kept all of those and then some. I had the speaker hole filled when Madera Concepts did the Zebrano wood (also not original). The dark blue leather is a BMW color but not for an e9. It's got a five speed, later fuel injection (original rebuilt motor), Staggered BBS Style 5s, e24 style airdam, etc... I love the car and based on all of the offers I had over the years plus the 20+ Peoples Choice awards it's won, so do a lot of other people.
Like Andrew said above, I built it for myself but I'm very glad that other people like it!
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As far as metal work, one must strive as much as possible to replicate the factory spot welds, etc.
And I would go as far as to NOT put on the shock tower insulation and let the beautiful metal speak for itself. Would not try to smooth anything there either.
And I would go as far as to NOT put on the shock tower insulation and let the beautiful metal speak for itself. Would not try to smooth anything there either.
Keep the "bones" 100% original - it costs no more to do this portion properly vs. "shaving" or some other custom cosmetic "upgrade" (only strict attention to detail and the proper choice of shop).
Colors (both interior and exterior): I can see where absolute originality can help ultimate valuation - if we're talking a very original or numbers matching car. I, however, would do what I want here - esp. if the original color is not very rare/desirable/cool, and you like one of the other period correct/OEM combos better. Keep all material patterns original, and any color variations from the as delivered spec are forgivable IMHO.
Drivetrain mods are almost always desirable if done properly and *reversibly*. Even if the car is numbers matching, build it for you now and keep the original parts if you ever decide to sell it.
Wheels/Seats/Steering Wheel/etc.: Again, as long as these are done *reversibly* (i.e. no extra holes for speakers/radio), build it for you now and keep original parts for the next owner if you ever decide to sell it.
It all ultimately comes down to what you want to do with *your* car. Being a good steward means improving the "as found" condition over time. Not every owner can/needs to be that hero that resuscitates a rusty shell into the next concourse winner. Being a good steward also means driving and enjoying your car today and sharing your passion with the next generation. I'm genuinely concerned that the inevitable transition to transportation as a service/ubiquitous electric and autonomous taxi pods with near infinite reliability will eventually kill all interest in anything but the most beautiful/rare/truly original classic cars. Sharing your e9 and passion and enthusiasm with the younger generation by driving it and showing it at Cars & Coffee type informal gatherings (warts and all), you are helping to forestall this inevitability. With a reduced overall market interest in old cars and the associated knowledge required to fix and repair them, values will bifurcate to either greatly increased or zero - mainly depending on how they are cared for now.
TL;DR: These restoration decisions truly depend on what your starting point and ultimate use cases are.
Colors (both interior and exterior): I can see where absolute originality can help ultimate valuation - if we're talking a very original or numbers matching car. I, however, would do what I want here - esp. if the original color is not very rare/desirable/cool, and you like one of the other period correct/OEM combos better. Keep all material patterns original, and any color variations from the as delivered spec are forgivable IMHO.
Drivetrain mods are almost always desirable if done properly and *reversibly*. Even if the car is numbers matching, build it for you now and keep the original parts if you ever decide to sell it.
Wheels/Seats/Steering Wheel/etc.: Again, as long as these are done *reversibly* (i.e. no extra holes for speakers/radio), build it for you now and keep original parts for the next owner if you ever decide to sell it.
It all ultimately comes down to what you want to do with *your* car. Being a good steward means improving the "as found" condition over time. Not every owner can/needs to be that hero that resuscitates a rusty shell into the next concourse winner. Being a good steward also means driving and enjoying your car today and sharing your passion with the next generation. I'm genuinely concerned that the inevitable transition to transportation as a service/ubiquitous electric and autonomous taxi pods with near infinite reliability will eventually kill all interest in anything but the most beautiful/rare/truly original classic cars. Sharing your e9 and passion and enthusiasm with the younger generation by driving it and showing it at Cars & Coffee type informal gatherings (warts and all), you are helping to forestall this inevitability. With a reduced overall market interest in old cars and the associated knowledge required to fix and repair them, values will bifurcate to either greatly increased or zero - mainly depending on how they are cared for now.
TL;DR: These restoration decisions truly depend on what your starting point and ultimate use cases are.
When i bought my RHD CSi it was painted white with a blue interior. During the strip down for resto it was confirmed that it was originally a beige color and no idea what the original seat color was was. Engine was also non original so for me its an easy choice to paint it the color I want so its going Taiga green with a black interior. Sourced a 3.5 and will be on the look out for a 5 speed. I reckon when complete this would be more desireable than if I put it back to its original color. I agree with other comments unless its a CSL, where it should be kept original as possible, paint it the color you like as long as its a period correct color.
My coupe was a color change from Baikal to a darker rendition of Nachtblau. I also did a dark red interior with wood that was different to factory. The person who bought my car is a high end collector and very much a purist. He wasn’t phased by these changes. My car was also originally a CSA not a CSI. It’s value was not negatively affected at all by these changes. I believe that modifications like coil overs Air ride and slammed suspensions (sounds redundant) cheapen the car and would affect value. Doing mods to the engine bay’s appearance can have a similar affect. Also flashy interiors like two tone seats could have a negative affect. Nice e21 Recaro seats done to match the rest of the interior looks sharp.
I bought my car because I wanted the most original and unrestored car I could find.
so I’ll do as much as I can to keep it original (within reason).
But for a bare metal restoration I would change the colour, remove the original vinyl top. So as others have said, do what‘s best for you.
so I’ll do as much as I can to keep it original (within reason).
But for a bare metal restoration I would change the colour, remove the original vinyl top. So as others have said, do what‘s best for you.
NiceMy coupe was a color change from Baikal to a darker rendition of Nachtblau. I also did a dark red interior with wood that was different to factory. The person who bought my car is a high end collector and very much a purist. He wasn’t phased by these changes. My car was also originally a CSA not a CSI. It’s value was not negatively affected at all by these changes. I believe that modifications like coil overs Air ride and slammed suspensions (sounds redundant) cheapen the car and would affect value. Doing mods to the engine bay’s appearance can have a similar affect. Also flashy interiors like two tone seats could have a negative affect. Nice e21 Recaro seats done to match the rest of the interior looks sharp.
My coupe was a color change from Baikal to a darker rendition of Nachtblau. I also did a dark red interior with wood that was different to factory. The person who bought my car is a high end collector and very much a purist. He wasn’t phased by these changes. My car was also originally a CSA not a CSI. It’s value was not negatively affected at all by these changes. I believe that modifications like coil overs Air ride and slammed suspensions (sounds redundant) cheapen the car and would affect value. Doing mods to the engine bay’s appearance can have a similar affect. Also flashy interiors like two tone seats could have a negative affect. Nice e21 Recaro seats done to match the rest of the interior looks sharp.
The purist still bought your car. Oh well.
WHere'd you get those relays!
Yes he did! And paid a very handsome sum.