eBay csl racer

uter

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ebay ad says the car is in Phoenix.

Anyone here know where? I'd love to go look at it. I'm in Scottsdale.
 

uter

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ebay ad says the car is in Phoenix.

Anyone here know where? I'd love to go look at it. I'm in Scottsdale.
 

YBNormal

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Cuffy Crabbe's Car?

It looks nearly identical to Cuffy Crabbe's car in the picture taken at the track, just the number and lettering different. The other pics are from a different incarnation, the car having 3 previous owners stateside before he acquired it in 2002 and brought it to Phoenix. Anybody know for sure?
 

YBNormal

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Cuffy Crabbe's Car?

It looks nearly identical to Cuffy Crabbe's car in the picture taken at the track, just the number and lettering different. The other pics are from a different incarnation, the car having 3 previous owners stateside before he acquired it in 2002 and brought it to Phoenix. Anybody know for sure?
 

dp

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Well, it's not an "L" VIN-wise, but it is a bonafide privateer racer from "in the day".... alas no insight into what its current configuration is in the eBay ad. The price implies a pretty highly-developed car, to my simple mind more than what was allowed in Gp.2 "in the day." But thats no matter, a legit interest will just contact the sellers and get to the true grit.

I seem to recall that car has been running around VARA style events with M5 twin cam.

Remember, some folks use eBay for cheap advertising, and with all us lookie-loos surfing while parked at our day jobs (don't ANY yanks actually work anymore?) eBay can get a WIDE audience for very cheap!
 

dp

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Well, it's not an "L" VIN-wise, but it is a bonafide privateer racer from "in the day".... alas no insight into what its current configuration is in the eBay ad. The price implies a pretty highly-developed car, to my simple mind more than what was allowed in Gp.2 "in the day." But thats no matter, a legit interest will just contact the sellers and get to the true grit.

I seem to recall that car has been running around VARA style events with M5 twin cam.

Remember, some folks use eBay for cheap advertising, and with all us lookie-loos surfing while parked at our day jobs (don't ANY yanks actually work anymore?) eBay can get a WIDE audience for very cheap!
 

chicane

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dp said:
Well, it's not an "L" VIN-wise, but it is a bonafide privateer racer from "in the day".... alas no insight into what its current configuration is in the eBay ad. The price implies a pretty highly-developed car, to my simple mind more than what was allowed in Gp.2 "in the day." But thats no matter, a legit interest will just contact the sellers and get to the true grit.

I seem to recall that car has been running around VARA style events with M5 twin cam.

Remember, some folks use eBay for cheap advertising, and with all us lookie-loos surfing while parked at our day jobs (don't ANY yanks actually work anymore?) eBay can get a WIDE audience for very cheap!

Most of these racers were not "L"'s.
 

chicane

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dp said:
Well, it's not an "L" VIN-wise, but it is a bonafide privateer racer from "in the day".... alas no insight into what its current configuration is in the eBay ad. The price implies a pretty highly-developed car, to my simple mind more than what was allowed in Gp.2 "in the day." But thats no matter, a legit interest will just contact the sellers and get to the true grit.

I seem to recall that car has been running around VARA style events with M5 twin cam.

Remember, some folks use eBay for cheap advertising, and with all us lookie-loos surfing while parked at our day jobs (don't ANY yanks actually work anymore?) eBay can get a WIDE audience for very cheap!

Most of these racers were not "L"'s.
 

dp

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chicane said:
Most of these racers were not "L"'s.

Well, most of the total number of cars that hit the track over 35 years ago. But most ran Gp 4 & 5, not Gp2. But missing L-ness is much more an issue with what bona-fide historic privateer cars currently survive, especially Gp1 and Gp2 cars. Not an important detail for someone who wants to race at premier events. But a very important detail for this forum crowd (since most haven't even seen one of these on a track, recently let alone "in the day.") I do not think many folks who've never seen one of these on the track or off, recently or in the day would plunk 6-large to start racing I do think those who would plunk 6-large would only consider it if the car were a shoe-in for the premier events in the States, Europe, or the UK.

For racing at premier events (like Goodwood or Monterey Historics) the following are more important details:

Most of the 6-figure historic race CS"L"s (especially privateer cars) have documented race history in yurrop. As far as I know this one still doesn't.

ALL 6-figure race cars raced in yurrop have a "wagenpass" (or equivalent) which states the purpose-built nature of the original car (i.e. "for racing"), providing trace-ability. This one does.

Remember Gp1 and Gp2 were ETC (yurrop/UK only) which did not allow for truly substantial changes that were not homologated, meaning the car could not run unless it had those bits after they were approved by the FIA for use. So plain-jane coupes post 1971 could not be competitive legally once the L's were introduced, since they didn't have the benefit of lightening that homologation provided, and substantial engine mods were not "free" (open, or allowable) apart from what may have been bolt-on. Either way, the extra weight of the chassis was hard to overcome. Thats not to say that no one ran non-L's, this one is one example that did run. But its not a slam-dunk that most Gp1 and Gp2 cars were non L's. Maybe a true statement though, after all Gp1 and Gp2 were going before the L's were homologated.

But to run at a "premier event", L or no, it still needs to have a readily prove-able historic period race history. CCA or VARA won't cut it for premier events. If the owners since it came over to the states had either taken the effort (or been able) to reconstruct its history, it'd be different. And THAT dear friends, is what has always driven the prices of 6-figure racing coupes, enough prove-able history to obtain an invite from someone like Steve Earl (pooh-bah of the Monterey Historics.)

But we know the eBay ad has prompted some of us to contact the seller, personally I still doubt I'll be able (or willing) to spring the coin the owner must want, whatever the dollar number really is. But someone will, they always do.
Your mileage may vary.
 

dp

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chicane said:
Most of these racers were not "L"'s.

Well, most of the total number of cars that hit the track over 35 years ago. But most ran Gp 4 & 5, not Gp2. But missing L-ness is much more an issue with what bona-fide historic privateer cars currently survive, especially Gp1 and Gp2 cars. Not an important detail for someone who wants to race at premier events. But a very important detail for this forum crowd (since most haven't even seen one of these on a track, recently let alone "in the day.") I do not think many folks who've never seen one of these on the track or off, recently or in the day would plunk 6-large to start racing I do think those who would plunk 6-large would only consider it if the car were a shoe-in for the premier events in the States, Europe, or the UK.

For racing at premier events (like Goodwood or Monterey Historics) the following are more important details:

Most of the 6-figure historic race CS"L"s (especially privateer cars) have documented race history in yurrop. As far as I know this one still doesn't.

ALL 6-figure race cars raced in yurrop have a "wagenpass" (or equivalent) which states the purpose-built nature of the original car (i.e. "for racing"), providing trace-ability. This one does.

Remember Gp1 and Gp2 were ETC (yurrop/UK only) which did not allow for truly substantial changes that were not homologated, meaning the car could not run unless it had those bits after they were approved by the FIA for use. So plain-jane coupes post 1971 could not be competitive legally once the L's were introduced, since they didn't have the benefit of lightening that homologation provided, and substantial engine mods were not "free" (open, or allowable) apart from what may have been bolt-on. Either way, the extra weight of the chassis was hard to overcome. Thats not to say that no one ran non-L's, this one is one example that did run. But its not a slam-dunk that most Gp1 and Gp2 cars were non L's. Maybe a true statement though, after all Gp1 and Gp2 were going before the L's were homologated.

But to run at a "premier event", L or no, it still needs to have a readily prove-able historic period race history. CCA or VARA won't cut it for premier events. If the owners since it came over to the states had either taken the effort (or been able) to reconstruct its history, it'd be different. And THAT dear friends, is what has always driven the prices of 6-figure racing coupes, enough prove-able history to obtain an invite from someone like Steve Earl (pooh-bah of the Monterey Historics.)

But we know the eBay ad has prompted some of us to contact the seller, personally I still doubt I'll be able (or willing) to spring the coin the owner must want, whatever the dollar number really is. But someone will, they always do.
Your mileage may vary.
 

chicane

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dp said:
chicane said:
Most of these racers were not "L"'s.

Well, most of the total number of cars that hit the track over 35 years ago. But most ran Gp 4 & 5, not Gp2. But absent L-ness is not necessarily so with what bona-fide historic privateer cars currently survive, especially Gp1 and Gp2 cars. Not an important detail for someone who wants to race at premier events. But a very important detail for this forum crowd (since most haven't even seen one of these on a track, recently let alone "in the day.") I do not think many folks who've never seen one of these would plunk 6-large to start racing, and I do think those who would plunk 6-large would only consider it if the car were a shoe-in for the premier events in the States, Europe, or the UK.

The documented 70's IMSA and FIA/ETCC cars are worth major dinero. Whether "L" or not. I would much rather have a non-"L" beat up 70's racer than a genuine mint Bat.
 

chicane

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dp said:
chicane said:
Most of these racers were not "L"'s.

Well, most of the total number of cars that hit the track over 35 years ago. But most ran Gp 4 & 5, not Gp2. But absent L-ness is not necessarily so with what bona-fide historic privateer cars currently survive, especially Gp1 and Gp2 cars. Not an important detail for someone who wants to race at premier events. But a very important detail for this forum crowd (since most haven't even seen one of these on a track, recently let alone "in the day.") I do not think many folks who've never seen one of these would plunk 6-large to start racing, and I do think those who would plunk 6-large would only consider it if the car were a shoe-in for the premier events in the States, Europe, or the UK.

The documented 70's IMSA and FIA/ETCC cars are worth major dinero. Whether "L" or not. I would much rather have a non-"L" beat up 70's racer than a genuine mint Bat.
 

dp

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chicane said:
The documented 70's IMSA and FIA/ETCC cars are worth major dinero. Whether "L" or not. I would much rather have a non-"L" beat up 70's racer than a genuine mint Bat.

ok (guess its already time to stop watching this topic)
 

dp

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chicane said:
The documented 70's IMSA and FIA/ETCC cars are worth major dinero. Whether "L" or not. I would much rather have a non-"L" beat up 70's racer than a genuine mint Bat.

ok (guess its already time to stop watching this topic)
 

pj

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This looks like the one 4 sale out of Atlanta a few years ago, asking price then 50k.Dale I think we are thinking about the same car.
 

pj

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This looks like the one 4 sale out of Atlanta a few years ago, asking price then 50k.Dale I think we are thinking about the same car.
 
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