"Fastest Windows in the West"

[shanon]

Howdy Coupers!

As part of the antics of the first annual Rallye Monte-Diablo, we held the "The Fastest Windows of the West" contest after lunch. Those lovely examples that had to depart the rally early, well who knows, you just may 'have' the Fastest...but you'll have to wait 'til next year. :wink:

Drivers were allowed to have engines on and chose preferred door windows. Windows started from the down position, raised to complete up, then back to absolute down.

The results:

TJ (electric CSL): 9.3 sec
Terry (electric CSL): 6.9 sec
Kurt (electric CSI): 11.1 sec
Shanon (manual 2800CS): 6.8sec

So Terry's CSL (early 'sardine' motors I believe) wins the '09 electric class, and I, by default, take the manual division.

To close to truly call this year - electric vs manual...could have been operator errors with the groovy vintage mechanical stopwatch..... :wink:
Next year we'll have those Official Heuer or Omega Timer/Judge folks in their red jackets and white pants officiating....:lol:

Good times!
-shanon

 

[sfdon]

FYI- I intended to enter the manual and electric divisions as my coupe has an electric passenger window and manual drivers window. A truly rare example of BMW engineering....

 

[corsachili]

What is truly a shame, is that we don't have that piece of driving on Redwood (Rd?) by Shanon, and yours truly, captured on video. Let me just tell you we were hauling ass. Great fun. Shanon knows how to drive a little.

 

[pj]

TJ, Which part was the redwood section?

 

[jhjacobs]

Amateurs!

I'll challenge anyone to a Rear window up-down race! With original stock motors I get 8.4 seconds! I must admit that I have the equivalent of a supercharger and headers on the power deliver system - direct feed 12 guage wire from the battery and relays next to the motors. Aside from polished armatures/brushes and clean, lubed tracks the rest is original equipment.

If you want fast windows I strongly recommend my relay circuit (former post). It takes the high current load off the tired old switches. The schematic is below -- I have since learned that 20A is not enough fuse (if you do two windows at once), 30A is needed. I use a self resetting 30A circuit breaker available from most auto parts houses. I would recommend that the "RED" wire be at least 16 gauge and bigger is better. Basically the old motor leads are used to turn on the relays (stand box relays which are also generally available). The diodes are not strictly needed, I'm just anal about electronics.

 

[shanon]

:lol:

.....sounds like this hot roddin', East Coast 'window-slinger' should come out West for next years shoot-out.

er...but what ya git fer yer 'hot-rod' door windows there Tex? :wink:

-shanon

 

[jhjacobs]

er...but what ya git fer yer 'hot-rod' door windows there Tex?

Not currently for sale but I've had inquiries for kits. When I was rebuilding them I noticed the voltage at the motors was only about 9-10v after going through the old switches. I did put in new switches but I decided I wanted them to last another 38 years so I did the relay mod.

If folks are serious about wanting a conversion kit I could probably be talked in to making up some sets.

 

[MPD47]

Non insulated that's scary! They make really cheap plug and play harnesses for relays. I have a box of them in my garage.

[Broken External Image]:http://www.autotoys.com/pics/relayharn.JPG

 

[jhjacobs]

MPD47. Thanks. I actually do have the pre-formed harness now; they often come with the relays. The photos were of the test rig I made up with spare parts to see if it worked correctly - this rig was quite secure and in no danger of shorting. I also use an in-line circuit breaker so there relay is no danger.

 

[MPD47]

Good stuff! I've seen enough wiring problems with classic cars, just wanted to make sure all was safe!

 

[ElRey]

Fastest windows . .

"We" did the window motor replacement for the rears and cleaned lubricated the tracks. Whatta difference! The windows can now be used as a salad slicer.

 

[jhjacobs]

Howdy Coupers!

As part of the antics of the first annual Rallye Monte-Diablo, we held the "The Fastest Windows of the West" contest after lunch. Those lovely examples that had to depart the rally early, well who knows, you just may 'have' the Fastest...but you'll have to wait 'til next year. :wink:

Drivers were allowed to have engines on and chose preferred door windows. Windows started from the down position, raised to complete up, then back to absolute down.

The results:

TJ (electric CSL): 9.3 sec
Terry (electric CSL): 6.9 sec
Kurt (electric CSI): 11.1 sec
Shanon (manual 2800CS): 6.8sec

So Terry's CSL (early 'sardine' motors I believe) wins the '09 electric class, and I, by default, take the manual division.

To close to truly call this year - electric vs manual...could have been operator errors with the groovy vintage mechanical stopwatch..... :wink:
Next year we'll have those Official Heuer or Omega Timer/Judge folks in their red jackets and white pants officiating....:lol:

Good times!
-shanon

Rear window electrics @ 5.6 seconds up-down with original pancakes. Do I need to enter a modified class? :confused:

 

[SHIMBIMMER]

as luck would have it - my right rear motor has either blown a fuse (is it fused?) or the motor has gone bad.

OK - as usual - how do I fix this one? LOL

 

[jhjacobs]

as luck would have it - my right rear motor has either blown a fuse (is it fused?) or the motor has gone bad.

OK - as usual - how do I fix this one? LOL

Does the motor make any sound at all when you try to engage it? Is it different when using the front or rear switch? It is actually pretty hard to kill one of these motors beyond repair. It is more likely to have a failed switch or a loose/disconnected wire.

The rear right window shares fuse 9 with the heater fan. If the fan works the fuse is good. The left rear shares fuse 8 with the rear window defrost. Both fuses are fed by the load shed relay and if one side works then it is fine. You can do a quick check of the fuses but if they are good I would look at few things (choose your order):

1. Pop off the rear window access panel (probably easiest with rear seat out. If you have a volt meter or 12v probe, check for voltage on the green and black wires at the motor terminal screws while trying up/down. One wire provides power to go up and the other to go down (don't remember which is which) but ground it direct through the chassis. If you are getting voltage then the motor needs to be cleaned - some 200 grit sand paper to polish the armature and brushes will work great and then finish by spraying it with disk brake cleaner or contact cleaner to remove metal dust. Also, lubricate the bushings with light machine oil (3in1 or similar). I also use spray white lube on the tracks for smoother operation. If you find voltage and the motor isn't doing anything then it is probably easiest to remove the entire window assembly (best with window down) to repair it. There are only 3 bolts holding it in (and the two wires).

2. Pop out the rear switch in the arm rest and look for missing / loose wires. If they are loose you can gently crimp them with pliers to make the bite better. Also check the black and green wires for voltage when activating up and down. There will be third wire (probably a striped wire) which should have voltage all the time (connection #30 on switch) with the ignition on . Also one switch connector is not used (#31).

3. Pop out the center console switch and do the same.

Basically the circuit is pretty simple. There is a direct wire from each fuse which which first goes to the center console switches and then goes to the rear switches (connector 30). I recall that in the center console this shows up as two wires crimped into a single female spade (one wire from fuse and the other to the rear switches).

:!: Remember, the ignition will need to be on when you are looking for voltage! Be very careful not to let any wires touch the chassis while testing because the fure is about 30amps and you can smoke a wire pretty easily.

PM or email if you want to walk through testing process in more detail. :-D

:twisted: I'm considering putting a buck boost voltage step up circuit in mine to break the 4 second up/down barrier. I may need to upgrade the gears to handle the added load. Is there a super-modified class? You west coast guys better get it on the ball with your electric window enhancements!

 

[Bill Riblett]

Does the motor make any sound at all when you try to engage it? Is it different when using the front or rear switch? It is actually pretty hard to kill one of these motors beyond repair. It is more likely to have a failed switch or a loose/disconnected wire.

Just to add to John's (as usual) nice write-up, the early "sardine can" motors can almost always be revived by working penetrating oil (NOT WD-40) into the bearings. I can't remember ever finding one I could not get to work.

I don't know if this is also true for the later plastic body motors, but is worth a try.

 

[pmansson]

I just installed everything into a door of a 74 car. I.e. later style regulator and motor with integrated gearbox. Before even hooking up the arm to the window, I noticed that the arm of the regulator moved slower than the arm on an early car with sardine style motors.

This was confirmed when I attached the arm. OK, there are adjustments to be made as it struggled somewhat, esp in the new U-shaped felt, treated with silicone....

I used the old clips as they seem softer than the brand new ones which pinch the felt, and presumably slows down the movement.

I left the windows in the closed position, as I understand that this will widen/open up the felt over a couple of weeks.....

 

[CSteve]

Got to this fascinating discussion a bit late. How about re-naming the contest:

The Slowest Power Windows on the Planet. The challenge is to find the slowest motors.
I take a perverse pleasure in watching that glass idle down(or up) and settle in for a nap with a deep sigh.

Steve

 

[Rex Kapriellian]

Not currently for sale but I've had inquiries for kits. When I was rebuilding them I noticed the voltage at the motors was only about 9-10v after going through the old switches. I did put in new switches but I decided I wanted them to last another 38 years so I did the relay mod.

If folks are serious about wanting a conversion kit I could probably be talked in to making up some sets.

View attachment 36549

View attachment 36550

 

[Rex Kapriellian]

Not currently for sale but I've had inquiries for kits. When I was rebuilding them I noticed the voltage at the motors was only about 9-10v after going through the old switches. I did put in new switches but I decided I wanted them to last another 38 years so I did the relay mod.

If folks are serious about wanting a conversion kit I could probably be talked in to making up some sets.

View attachment 36549

View attachment 36550

I know this is an old thread, what would the cost be for set?

I can use these as my window struggles to even move up an inch.

 

[Stevehose]

If your windows aren't moving these won't help. Remove and clean/regrease all regulators as documented by a couple members. Relays will get your resulting normal windows running faster. Here's my thread, no kit necessary:

https://www.e9coupe.com/forum/threads/electric-window-relay-upgrade.10435/