Fuel to the 'value' fire

Valuation from "professional publication" is very

I'm certain they haven't a clue as to private sales of E-9's and doubtful that they have any access to them--so their information on valuation appears to this old-timer of similar credibilty as the venerable "Blue Book"--i.e., little relevance or none--useful only to financial institutions and insurers who always have the owner/buyers best interest at heart!!--tongue deep in cheek with that comment of course

That last statement makes at least as much sense as tri-powers consistent negative commentary on the subject of value--my reaction at least--
I'm really curious as to what is the basis for such a dark outlook on each and every participants statement of their personal experiences--also curious as to how much actual experience tripower has had in the judging, sorting and placing of quality Coupes--perhaps he can enlighten all of us.

Just a curious Old Timer with 35 years of Coupe ownership and driving fun under his belt--and with a bit of first hand and some second hand experiences with quality Coupe transactions since buying my first in 1972 to the last one sold here locally in 2006--it does cover a few years and quite a few Coupes.
 
I think he has the entry level CSL right @ $19.5 its just the higher end he's off on .
As far as the high end of the CS/CSI market he is way off ,I would say a 8 is in the region of 20k up to low 30's for a pristine (stock or modified) example.Mine sold for 30k in the early 90's. There is a market for the pristine examples as there is really limited supply,so if someones got the dosh and don't want to go through the resto process they are gonna have to pay.

I know of 3 really nice csl's that have all gone for 40k+
some not so nice ones 15k+ (need finishing/resto)

Cs/csi $500 - $35,000

PJ
 
Re: Valuation from "professional publication" is v

I'm really curious as to what is the basis for such a dark outlook on each and every participants statement of their personal experiences--also curious as to how much actual experience tripower has had in the judging, sorting and placing of quality Coupes--perhaps he can enlighten all of us.
Click to expand...

Sure, I'll enlighten you. I can read. I can read this forum and their private party sales. I can read Hemmings. I can read SCM. I can read leading auctioneer results. I can read CraigsList and I can get a pretty good idea for what the current market for a good (9-10) CS/CSI will go for and it's not 40K+. It's more like 25-30K. Which I do not regard as shabby at all. I'm also curious as to why certain people here take this issue so personally and seem to want to wish these cars to be more valuable than they are in the current market. Maybe you can enlighten us?
 
Re: Valuation from "professional publication" is v

I'm really curious as to what is the basis for such a dark outlook on each and every participants statement of their personal experiences
Click to expand...

Murray, please don't perceive constructive criticism as "dark." We're trying to shine a light on things. 8)

Let's draw a distinction between two kinds of value that are being ascribed here; one that is feduciary and one that is, for lack of better terms, intrinsic or collective.

Much of this discussion has centered around the former - a contentious, somewhat objective subject. As Trip has stated, research will bare for how much anything is selling. In a stroke of irony, the SCB website's "classified ad of the day" today (3/23) highlights an ad for a restored 2002tii selling for $59,000. It's been for sale for quite some time at that price, but is telling...

My own interest in this subject is with the more subjective, intrinsically perceived value of the E9. That is, why has SCM dropped it into its C category when many of here would likely place it in the B category (by SCM's own definition). The comment has been made that most people don't know what an E9 is and that BMW does a poor job of promoting its history.

While that may be true, you also might think that SCM would have a better knowledge of the minutae of automotive history. Sure, the E9 has a bad case of Achilles' heel (rust, 'natch), but that shouldn't preclude SCM including it in a category with other technically advanced, stylish cars with a racing pedigree. I haven't looked, but I'd guess that contemporary 911s and Jaguar E-Types, which have their own peculiar foibles (tempermental motors, Lucas electrics), have not been assigned to the C catgory of history.

Just so I'm not accused of preaching to the choir, I've dropped a note to this effect to SCM. I'll post the reply if there is one.
 
Not wishing about Coupe value--just reporting

actual experiences--note use of plural--of "value"

as to reading publications--yes--but virtually all print today is out of date by the time it's on the rack and usually reflects the sources available to the author that omits private sales.

I'm reminded of an incident of about 30 years ago--I had observed a very high mechanical aptitude in a young classmate and friend of my son--I stated to him that someday we would see a lot of BMW automobiles--with that forecast in mind I took him to the original German BMW MM here in Orange County--he was hired on the spot--stayed 9 years and now he has owned his own Independent BMW shop for the past 20 years--the BLUMAX was the very first BMW he had ever touched!

sometimes vision is correct---and today BMW's are very plentiful in this part of SoCal--his personal integrity and hard work in the BMW auto service business has yielded a loyal following of almost 1,000 customers--and still growing--all by referral--this undertaking by the then 20 year old now provides him an excellent livelihood and fine business reputation that many College Grads with advanced degrees would envy.

This same not so young man now has for several years predicted that a Coupe in fine condition will eventually carry a $50 K price tag--I have shared that same belief for many years.

Neither of us are naive nor unaware of Coupe values--evidence is mounting and that forecast of value now appears nearer today than when made several years ago!
 
Like it or not, buying an approximately 35-year old car is an investment. If you could have used the money that you spent on anything for something else, it's an investment-- This is not any more specific to a car than a house, a vacation, a keg of beer, etc... It's the economic principle of opportunity cost, which is directly tied to investment principle.

That's why this discussion gets so much activity and reaction. Do I take Tripower's stance on this issue? No, but in some ways, we cross-over. Would I have placed my money someplace where I had no interest, and/or background information? No, that would make me uninformed, financially-speaking, which is a characteristic of a bad investor and/or strategy.

I am not advocating investment in any car or switching gears on my stance-- I see it as fun, and for what it is. That's probably because I'm at very little chance of any kind of financial loss. However, there are always alternative uses for my money, cars included, and it's obvious that the E9 is no longer a depreciating asset. Does that make it an investment? Maybe, maybe not; depends on personal perspective.

So I don't know-- I think opinions have been voiced, and to a certain extent, the market has recently spoken.

Leave it to speculation to see where the chips fall. If the E9 becomes something more than fun, well, I guess that's great.
 
Would someone please sell me a mint 3.0CS for $14,500, please? That must be what they're going for because that's what the chart says. :D

Okay, to put SCM's estimates into perspective, consider what SCM says about Mercedes SL prices versus what John Olson writes in his "SL Market Letter."

Olson is a specialist who tracks SLs of all years and shows, for example, that values for Pagoda SLs are almost 50% higher than SCM's figures. That's a gigantic mistake on someone's part.

Both are respected publications, but as a specialist who tracks the full spectrum of prices within one narrow niche, Olson definitely gets the nod as the one who shows where the market truly is today.

I suggest that SCM is inaccurate in their reporting of the E9 market for the same reasons -- too small a universe of prices reported from a non-specialist.

I would also add that the closest thing we have to a specialist in this tiny market is Murray. I'm guessing he's watched the hammer fall on more E9 sales than Keith Martin.
 
I hate to go back to this, but I agree, I agree...

Look at what SCM does to itself in the valuations between a Boss 302 and Boss 429-- Grade "A" @ 8%, and Grade "B" @ 30%....? Makes no sense whatsoever.
 
SCM relies on contributing writers for a lot of content. If having accurate e9 valuations is a priority for someone, then get in contact with Keith, establish your credentials, and start reporting.

I hope good weather comes soon, you guys have clearly got some serious cabin fever! :p
 
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