Head crack

Yes Sfdon, i followed all guidance on here and instructions in the manual etc. The only thing that didnt go well was when angle torquing the bolts one of them would not seem to bite like the others but i had a friend look at it and he said it was fine.

I will report back once i have done the pressure check - fingers crossed.
 
Don't hesitate to pressure the system up several times over six hours or so.
Then listen very carefully when you 1st crank it.
Did you say you had checked the output nipple, hose and input nipple for the expansion tank system? Replaced the t-stat? Drilled th t-stat?
 
Well guys,

i took the car out the other day for the first drive this year - it started perfect - idled well and pulled hard - i didnt thrash it but had fun. I went to it yesterday and as i feared the collant level has dropped - i can see a mark where the expansion tank overflow hose has let water out.

The oil filler cap is white milky underneath and the dipstick also had a small bit of white at the 'wiggly'

I was hoping the previous slight milkiness was left over coolant in the oil from the head change where some coolant dribbled into the oil channels. Now though it seems its definitely a creacked head or duff gasket.

I feel I will now go for it and change to a later head - any tips here?

Im pretty fed up with this car!

Thanks,

Rohan
 
Any sense in trying to torque the head down more or am i asking for more trouble doing that?
 
Remember- never loosen a head bolt to tighten it. Head bolts go only in 1 direction at a time.
Did you hand thread your bolts 1st?
If that was my job I would torque in sequence to 75 lbs (100 Nm)
No harm if properly torqued and could help if the angle torque was wrong.

Next step is a can of K&M or a bottle of Moroso
 
sfdon said:
Remember- never loosen a head bolt to tighten it. Head bolts go only in 1 direction at a time.
Did you hand thread your bolts 1st?
If that was my job I would torque in sequence to 75 lbs (100 Nm)
No harm if properly torqued and could help if the angle torque was wrong.

Next step is a can of K&M or a bottle of Moroso
Click to expand...

sorry i disagree with you
it is clearly stated that to retorque head bolts you should undo 1/4 turn each bolt before retorquing to specs, if you don't undo the bolts you will be opposing to the static friction, thus you will virtually get a wrong final torque result
i am speaking about my personal experience too (i did my engine, and after 1000km i did retorque the head bolts to final specs, i recall it was between 70 to 80 Nm), after many questions here and out from this forum, it was agreed that for my type of head gasket this was the appropriate way to do so
 
Just going by BMW North America's written instructions.

http://bmwtechinfo.com/repair/main/index.htm


BMW of North America, LLC
Repair Information


Repair Information
Nominal Values, Specifications and Tightening Torques
320i Repair Manual No. 2
528i ... 530 Repair Manual No. 1
524td ... 535i Repair Manual No. 4
630 ... 633CSi Repair Manual
733i Repair Manual No. 2
8 Series - E31 Repair Manual No. 4
Automobiles (Since 1985 Models) Manual No. 14
3 Series E30 Repair Manual No. 7
5 Series E34 Repair Manual No. 8
6 Series (From 1986 Models Onwards) Repair Manual No. 2
733i-735i Repair Manual No. 3
7 Series - E32 Repair Manual No. 6
 

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sfdon said:
Just going by BMW North America's written instructions.

http://bmwtechinfo.com/repair/main/index.htm
Click to expand...


I have not studied these recommendations in quite some time, but sight unseen, I have to wonder whether this advice refers to newer style stretch head bolts versus the non-stretch/reusable bolts that were originally used with the E9. (I wonder if the same factory admonition is given for early E21 installations.)

As methodology seems to be changing, I would be inclined to follow the gasket manufacturer's recommendations over the factory's dated instructions. That presupposes the gasket is a fairly new one :wink:


Anecdotally, the Autobooks Manual was written prior to the factory's change of recommendation to torque-to-yield bolts. It clearly describes "slackening" the bolts prior to retorquing. Same recommendation is found in original shop manual. http://www.e9-driven.com/Public/Library/BMW-E9-Manual/pages/en/11121010.html#refertoc

http://e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7312
http://e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10288



So - in response to Rohan's original query, I would first want to know what fasteners were used for the last head installation. Then I would be interested to know whether the original gasket manufacturer recommended any retorquing.

Practically speaking, if you were careful with the torque wrench, it is doubtful you would hurt anything by retightening the headbolts within approximate recommended specs. This assumes there was no debris interfering with the bolt threads and that the headbolts were not distorted. Unless you discovered that one or more of the bolts were mysteriously loose, retorquing is unlikely to remedy what is probably a headgasket issue. I use the word probably, because there is always the remote possibility of a head defect. I also would wait to carefully inspect the head before concluding that the problem is related to the early head design. Some of us (me) continue to use them on a daily basis. :smile:




autobooks_manual_019.jpg
 
Just to be clear- I'm playing devils advocate here!

Also thought it would be a great way to share the
BMW site with all those great manuals.
Stated fee for use is $30 a day or $2500
per year. I like free better!
 
Don, I never doubted your considerable expertise on this subject.

Reviewed some of the authorities mentioned in prior threads. Noticed the dates for the shop manual are in the '70s. D's linked authority appears to be dated 9-81 and then there is a tech service bulletin dated 6-86. Consistent with the last two authorities, retorquing involves one direction only (clockwise) and does not envision counter clockwise movement - unless the head is being removed. I am guessing that slackening is difficult to accomplish without a "slack-o-meter," and BMW reckons that slackening may lead to inconsistent and uneven fastener torque. (I used the word may and not will). In other words, it is probably better practice not to loosen before retightening. (Doesn't the revised Autobooks advise against scratching mosquito bites unless you have a slack-o-meter and calamine lotion?) One wonders whether the factory's logic is based upon the odds that more mechanical practitioners are using the newer stretch-style head bolts, but I am sure they have their reasons, stated or unstated.

This conundrum is not unlike the dueling authorities for using anti seize on spark plug threads in aluminum alloy cylinder heads. Some plug manufacturers advise against - others for. A certain car manufacturer that begins with a "B" once recommended using the stuff. (see below). Notice under "Solution" NGK's recommendation for "initial" use. Is there an unstated recommendation for "subsequent?" :neutral: http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/TB-0630111antisieze.pdf


http://e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13222
 
Thanks guys,

I used from memory an Elring gasket and followed the gasket instructions which was torque to a number and then an angle. I used new head bolts from W&N.

I guess i am clutching at straws with a tightening as any passage now for water has been established.

I think it is a crack as it shows up more when the car is properly hot and being driven a bit hard. Compressions are all fine though - i may do a back to back cold vs hot compression check.

I agree that the early head is in frequent use and indeed obviously was back in the day however it does look more fragile than later heads.

Oh well - at least the fittings etc will come off easy as the exhaust manifold is new etc.

One day she will be all done .........
 
Hi DeQuincey - i cant seem to see a video in the post?

Just to be clear - did you have any problem with mixing of fluids in your engine or were you just worried about the retoruque stage at 1000 km?

Thanks,

Rohan
 
30csl said:
Hi DeQuincey - i cant seem to see a video in the post?

Just to be clear - did you have any problem with mixing of fluids in your engine or were you just worried about the retoruque stage at 1000 km?

Thanks,

Rohan
Click to expand...

there IS a video, just click on the photo at the last post

my concern was the retorque, but there is enough discussion there to help you if you finally decide to retorque
 
Ok thanks deQuincey. I think I need to pull the head again sadly.

Up to what year cylinder head can be used on our original blocks?

Thanks, Rohan
 
well in a fit of activity yesterday I decided to try and tighten down the head. all bolts were torqued to 75 lb except the first bolt from the front on the intake side. It would only torque to 60 and kept turning but didn't feel to be torquing up. Should I just back up, get a later head, New gasket and try again? sigh. Under the rocker cover there was more obvious coolant sitting in the oil.
 
If your head bolt does mot tighten wouldn't that indicate a stripped thread in the block, not the head, which could be repaired with a coil and tap?

30csl said:
well in a fit of activity yesterday I decided to try and tighten down the head. all bolts were torqued to 75 lb except the first bolt from the front on the intake side. It would only torque to 60 and kept turning but didn't feel to be torquing up. Should I just back up, get a later head, New gasket and try again? sigh. Under the rocker cover there was more obvious coolant sitting in the oil.
Click to expand...
 
Steve, its odd as it doesn't feel like a stripped thread either. I think ill pull the head again and see what's what. This really is the weak mechanical point on these cars!
 
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