Homologation CSLs?

[Mal CSL 3.0]

BMW E9 3.0 CSL Guide — Supercar Nostalgia

An in-depth historical and technical appraisal of BMW's E9 3.0 CSL Group 2 homologation special from 1971-1973

supercarnostalgia.com

I recently read this article which states 1000 CSLs were required to meet the FIA target so the CSL would be eligible to compete in Group 2. Apparently the first 1000 fuel injected 3003cc versions that met the criterial were completed by late Nov 1972. (It seems they built these 1000 cars over about a 3 month period which is impressive).

So I was wondering are the 1000 CSLs with VINs that sit within the homologation batch from 'Sept 72 to late Nov 72' actually listed in any records from BMW somewhere? And are these 1000 first homologation VINed cars of any more value than later CSL 3003cc versions manufactured in Dec 72' or into '73?

 

[HB Chris]

Only 670 CSLs were made in 1972 including the last (69 or so) lightweight carb CSLs, not 1000 in three months. See our Production by Year table here:

E9 VIN Production Range & How to find your VIN.

E9 Production 12/68 to 09/73: Chassis Start VIN End VIN Production Total 2800 CS 2200001 2206283 6,283 2800 CSA 2220001 2221949 1,949 3.0 CS 2210001 2214006 3,837 3.0 CS Carb CSLs (in VIN range above) 169 3.0 CSA 2230001 2232807 2,807 3.0 Csi 2260001 2266506 6,506...

e9coupe.com

 

[HB Chris]

This site says Jan 2, 1973 though. And BMW was making about 500 cars a month in 72 and 73 for all models.

FIA Historic Database

historicdb.fia.com

 

[Markos]

I have a UK authored book that states that the 500 RHD CSL’s were ordered and built in October-November of 1972, and stored in a yard in Belgium. Imported to the UK as needed.

I’m not sure how accurate that is, but one could easily verify with early and late known RHD build dates.

 

[BMW Pete]

BMW E9 3.0 CSL Guide — Supercar Nostalgia

An in-depth historical and technical appraisal of BMW's E9 3.0 CSL Group 2 homologation special from 1971-1973

supercarnostalgia.com

I recently read this article which states 1000 CSLs were required to meet the FIA target so the CSL would be eligible to compete in Group 2. Apparently the first 1000 fuel injected 3003cc versions that met the criterial were completed by late Nov 1972. (It seems they built these 1000 cars over about a 3 month period which is impressive).

So I was wondering are the 1000 CSLs with VINs that sit within the homologation batch from 'Sept 72 to late Nov 72' actually listed in any records from BMW somewhere? And are these 1000 first homologation VINed cars of any more value than later CSL 3003cc versions manufactured in Dec 72' or into '73?

Mal,

I would not take any notice of this write up, yes it has a couple of things right, but it is filled with bad information. Just as one example I personally have in my collection three of the first 169 carb CSL's all built well before the claimed start date of Dec 71.

This is the work of what we tend to see more and more, laziness in writing combined with the wish to seen as an authority, or as we used to say back home "know alls that know sweet .............."

 

[HB Chris]

I have a UK authored book that states that the 500 RHD CSL’s were ordered and built in October-November of 1972, and stored in a yard in Belgium. Imported to the UK as needed.

I’m not sure how accurate that is, but one could easily verify with early and late known RHD build dates.

View attachment 134194

349 in 72, 251 in 73 from our table

 

[Mal CSL 3.0]

This site says Jan 2, 1973 though. And BMW was making about 500 cars a month in 72 and 73 for all models.

FIA Historic Database

historicdb.fia.com

This is a fascinating FIA CSL document. Thanks Chris, I definitely printed this one out to add into my history file.

What I did notice is that in this FIA document they mention 1000 with a date of 28 November 1972. (Herstellung des 1000. Fahrzeuges erfolgte am = The 1000th vehicle was manufactured on 28th November 1972).

So this leads me to believe that BMW met FIA's 1000 car homologation target by this date. And the start date of production (Beginn der Serien-Fertigung) was December 71 so the rule was 1000 CSLs to be made in a 1 year period.


However in our E9 Coupe data base we only list 791 CSLs up to end of 1972 (I also added the 21 race CSLs into this period however we don't know exact years for them).

So our database falls short about 209 cars vs. the FIA document..... this leads me to think that maybe @Markos has a good point that some of the RHD CSLs were built in 1972 and sat in Belgium and were then only sold in UK in 1973.

 

[Keshav]

This might help (complicate) further

 

[HB Chris]

That is the table with many errors, e.g. 215 CSiA RHD for example, first 169 lightweights all in 1971 which is not correct, 21 race cars not included, etc.

 

[m5toureg]

@Mal CSL 3.0 -
What is it you really wish to know about the BMW E9 CSL production cars ?
1) all 4 production series CSL VIN sequences/numbers are known (ttl 1265 cars) + 21 works race cars
2) the official production/assembly ready dates of each one of these if not known by the present owner
or being published in various documents/sites *)....can be obtained from the BMW Classic archives
*) you could begin with the ,bmwmregistry' to get a rough idea of production periods
(be careful with printed words, books and articles, they are written by people like you and me....)

 

[Mal CSL 3.0]

@Mal CSL 3.0 -
What is it you really wish to know about the BMW E9 CSL production cars ?
1) all 4 production series CSL VIN sequences/numbers are known (ttl 1265 cars) + 21 works race cars
2) the official production/assembly ready dates of each one of these if not known by the present owner
or being published in various documents/sites *)....can be obtained from the BMW Classic archives
*) you could begin with the ,bmwmregistry' to get a rough idea of production periods
(be careful with printed words, books and articles, they are written by people like you and me....)

My post was because I wanted to get a better understanding of CSL homologation.

HB Chris provided exactly what I was looking for to answer all my questions by linking the detailed FIA CSL PDF document - This forum is so good!

 

[tferrer]

Nothing is known for 100% sure. It's all speculation so it's nothing to really worry about. It is what it is. BMW kept terrible records. Especially considering how detailed Porsche and Mercedes were. Especially the special cars they produced. All BMW has is the production date, when and what dealer it went to and the color. That's it as far as I've seen. Mine was reportedly produced on Nov 28th so if that's the last date of production something is amiss. The 3.2 liter cars came after...

 

[m5toureg]

My post was because I wanted to get a better understanding of CSL homologation.

HB Chris provided exactly what I was looking for to answer all my questions by linking the detailed FIA CSL PDF document - This forum is so good!

you can‘t be serious ?? That ,paper‘ reads
1) date of application = November 1972
2) production of the number 1.000 car on 28. Nov. 1972
The laugh of the day……… but, if you are happy, be my guest…..

 

[Markos]

you can‘t be serious ?? That ,paper‘ reads
1) date of application = November 1972
2) production of the number 1.000 car on 28. Nov. 1972
The laugh of the day……… but, if you are happy, be my guest…..

Sentiment: A+
Delivery: F

 

[Mal CSL 3.0]

@m5toureg …. Actually if you download the full 73 pg PDF document it has a lot of interesting information. Well it was to me anyway.

 

[m5toureg]

@m5toureg …. Actually if you download the full 73 pg PDF document it has a lot interesting information. Well it was to me anyway.

@Mal CSL 3.0 -
if indeed you found what you were looking for = great ! I thought your question was this ??
„“““““““So I was wondering are the 1000 CSLs with VINs that sit within the homologation batch
from 'Sept 72 to late Nov 72' actually listed in any records from BMW somewhere?
And are these 1000 first homologation VINed cars of any more value than later CSL 3003cc
versions manufactured in Dec 72' or into '73?“““““
-
@Markos - thanks.
Those are High School Grades, right ? There are ,no grades’ in the ,kindergarten’…..
This should be all fun, not for gold medals. Tough guys, down under..

 

[craterface]

I can't speak for exactly what the FIA was doing in 1972-73, but ten years earlier the Ferrari 250 GTO was homologated as a GT (even though only 30 something were built, well short of the required 100) because Ferrari claimed it was merely a modified 250 SWB (and the production figures of the SWB plus the GTO did exceed 100), and the FIA believed that argument. Rules were subject to interpretation I suppose.

Following this, the FIA was prepared to take Enzo Ferrari at his word that he "intended" to produce 100 mid-engine 250 LMs for the Grand Touring class. After strenuous objections from Carroll Shelby (who had his Cobra Coupe Daytonas) and others, the FIA refused to homologate the car (only 30 odd were ever made), forcing the 250LM to compete as a prototype. If Shelby had not raised his objections, the 250 LM might have been allowed to race in GT.

If Ford did not object to the CSL racing in its class with the Capri, then the FIA may not have scrutinized the timing of when exactly the cars were built. Perhaps BMW submitted the VIN numbers to the FIA in advance of actual production, and that was good enough.

 

[tferrer]

It also has to be taken into consideration the FIA then and now REALLY want manufacturers to take part in the various classes so they may bend a bit on the rules if a major brand wants to join a class

 

[roundel]

Homologation is a very complicated thing...for a manufacturer to produce 1000 quirky cars they might struggle to sell over a 12 month period is quite a commitment. There are many stories of manufacturers trying to convince the FIA they had produced enough cars by being a bit creative. When the time came for the 1000 cars to be inspected they would be in several different locations, after the first batch had been inspected they would be moved to one of the later locations to be counted again. I think Gp B rally cars were a good example. BMW tried to Homologate the CSL for the 1972 season but obviously fell well short and failed. Interesting that the VIN number on the initial application was 2201001 ( not even a CSL....), it was not until 1337 cars later that the real production of the CSL started, which was really taking the pi**....and obviously the FIA could not play ball.
Most importantly the FIA wanted the CSL Homologated for obvious reasons, after a few seasons of Ford domination everyone was getting bored, as we all know the result provided probably the best ETCC season ever.