taylorcom
Well-Known Member
As an E9 owner, I've been watching E9 values rise on Nada.com. Can anyone tell us what the annual rate of appreciation has been?
Thanks.
Thanks.
How much are E9's appreciating/year?
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CTD
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure since I don't have mine for so long. But I know that the Hommage Concept made the E9 rise from 25000eur for a decent one to around 29000-34000eur.
MyFemurHurts
Well-Known Member
I don't know either, but all I can say is that I'm glad to have bought mine a few years ago.
this is really condition dependent.
in 2010, condition 1 to 2 - 3.0cs coupes sold for around 40k +/- 5k
mid 2013 ... it was around 50k +/- 5k
today the same coupe is selling for around 60k +/- 10k
true condition 1 coupes currently sell for 85k to 100k
a few years ago, that coupe would have sold for 75k to 85k
a few years before that perhaps 60k to 65k
Hagerty's values don't quite get to these numbers ... the truth is, there are very few condition 1 coupes ... take a look at hagerty's website ... the csl is a different animal
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=149257
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=149260
hagerty's has a condition 2 3.0csi pegged at 40k right now ... i think this is a little below market.
in 2010, condition 1 to 2 - 3.0cs coupes sold for around 40k +/- 5k
mid 2013 ... it was around 50k +/- 5k
today the same coupe is selling for around 60k +/- 10k
true condition 1 coupes currently sell for 85k to 100k
a few years ago, that coupe would have sold for 75k to 85k
a few years before that perhaps 60k to 65k
Hagerty's values don't quite get to these numbers ... the truth is, there are very few condition 1 coupes ... take a look at hagerty's website ... the csl is a different animal
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=149257
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=149260
hagerty's has a condition 2 3.0csi pegged at 40k right now ... i think this is a little below market.
Depends what it is.
'72-'75 CSIs:
1: $90-100k
2: $50-60k
3: $35-45k
4: $25-35k
5: $15-25k
6: $5k-10k
For 3.0 CS, substract about 15%
For 2800 CS, subtract about 20%
CSLs are through the roof now. Anywhere between $100-150k
'72-'75 CSIs:
1: $90-100k
2: $50-60k
3: $35-45k
4: $25-35k
5: $15-25k
6: $5k-10k
For 3.0 CS, substract about 15%
For 2800 CS, subtract about 20%
CSLs are through the roof now. Anywhere between $100-150k
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I know they appreciate being in the garage at night, avoiding water and being driven on sunny days. I don't know anything about their value.
Dan
Dan
I have a 2800 too, but they just don't seem to command (haven't seen a high dollar one in quite a while) quite as much. 5% isn't that much.
I'd rather have a 2800 than say, a 74-75. Even a 73 (unless it's a Euro) since those bumpers stick out some. Plus the extra side-marker lights.
But the 3.0 has a bit more HP and the better brakes than a 2800, hence the 5% differential.
waynesie
Well-Known Member
~20% per year for the past 5 years
Also look at the low end 5 years vs now
Parts car (sub condition 5)
Were $1-3k = now $5-8k
Conditon 5
Were $5-7k = now $8-12k
I think rsporsche's values for a 2010 might be on hi side, but spot on for 2015
In 2010 a condition 2 would have a hard time selling for over $25k and no one believed a condition 1 was a condition 1. You could buy a CSL condition 3 for sub $35k.... Porsches were reasonably priced, no body had any money and e9s had been flat for years.
Also look at the low end 5 years vs now
Parts car (sub condition 5)
Were $1-3k = now $5-8k
Conditon 5
Were $5-7k = now $8-12k
I think rsporsche's values for a 2010 might be on hi side, but spot on for 2015
In 2010 a condition 2 would have a hard time selling for over $25k and no one believed a condition 1 was a condition 1. You could buy a CSL condition 3 for sub $35k.... Porsches were reasonably priced, no body had any money and e9s had been flat for years.
CSL's can go to 250k ... if its the right car in the right condition ... and it can still go up. one that needs minor work starts at 100k. face it, a rust bucket is a rust bucket - worth a whole lot less.
2800cs just don't go to auction very often, and that's where a lot of the numbers come from. a condition 1 2800cs is a valuable car, close to a 3.0cs. I believe that Murray's Blumax (2800cs) sold in the range of what you have listed as a condition 2 CSi ... and that was 1 1/2 years ago or so. documented high value sales are what we need to track - for all of our coupes
you won't find any significant difference in the price of a condition 3 or 4 2800cs and a 3.0cs or csi. i think you are dreaming if you really think a CSi is worth 15% more than a 3.0cs of equal condition.
2800cs just don't go to auction very often, and that's where a lot of the numbers come from. a condition 1 2800cs is a valuable car, close to a 3.0cs. I believe that Murray's Blumax (2800cs) sold in the range of what you have listed as a condition 2 CSi ... and that was 1 1/2 years ago or so. documented high value sales are what we need to track - for all of our coupes
you won't find any significant difference in the price of a condition 3 or 4 2800cs and a 3.0cs or csi. i think you are dreaming if you really think a CSi is worth 15% more than a 3.0cs of equal condition.
maybe i'm off a year ... but not by much in price. the cormier white 2800cs sold in 2011 for around 40k. the ceylon 3.0cs of Peter Tackas sold for around 42k. not sure i would call these true condition 1 cars ... but they were both very nice coupes.
From Haggerty:
Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best car, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the car has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 cars is "concours."
I consider my coupe to be Condition #2, Condition #1 cars are never driven, they are trailered to events. The Cormier and Ceylon coupes weren't Condition #1. With that being said, Condition #2 coupes can still command $75-90K. And they don't have to be CSis either.
Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best car, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the car has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 cars is "concours."
I consider my coupe to be Condition #2, Condition #1 cars are never driven, they are trailered to events. The Cormier and Ceylon coupes weren't Condition #1. With that being said, Condition #2 coupes can still command $75-90K. And they don't have to be CSis either.
Well said.
that is my point too, Dan
So, say a CS 3.0 is $40k. Do you think a CSi of the same same condition/options would NOT be worth $46k (15% premium)?
I dunno. I think most people would gladly pay that premium, if not more.
No dorky side markers, no bumper extensions (73), and higher HP engine and injection. Heck yes I'd pay $6k more for all that!
Chris, I agree with you that neither the cormier or the ceylon coupes were condition 1 ... i called them 1 to 2 because many people think they are condition 1 ... and they aren't. my point was, that coupe in 2011 was 40 to 42k. today, the same coupe with no further work would be worth 60k +/- 10k.
your coupe is very much as close to a condition 1 as a car that is driven can be. my bet is that your coupe is every bit of an 85k+ car. as i have also said, CS or CSi ... there really isn't a significant difference in value a great coupe is a great coupe a b35 3.5L in a great coupe is worth just as much as a CSi.
Teahead - many CSi have side markers due to federalization. many do not have AC or leather seats ... so they aren't worth as much to me as both of those are important.
Wow, based on Chris' definition a condition 1 car may not exist. In any case I refuse to be categorized, my coupe is my coupe and I see people pointing wherever I park it. I mean after I leave the car, so they are not pointing at me. Anyway I think mine went up 7x in 10 years, what rate of return is that? But then again I improved it quite a bit since then, and then again capital gains taxes are not enforced on cars, so it has to be compared against a municipal bond. Which means that some Wall Street bigwigs should do a classic car ETF, any takers? I am actually upping the ante and getting a Lancia Fulvia that is being sorted out as we speak (pictures to follow). Will it appreciate? Who knows, to me the Fulvia is art, I would loath standing in line at the Louvre, or drinking Pinot at Art galleries in Carmel pretending I understand what the artist is saying about his sculpture, but a Fulvia is art a brute like me can appreciate, which brings us back to Dan's definition of appreciation. My brother says I drive junkyard cars and that the Fulvia looks like a Pinto. Who is the brute? Hard to say, probably both.
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Having a numbers matching CSi I find it hard to believe it would be worth an equal amount to a non numbers matching anything...
From where I sit, I will not pass judgement on the market for personal reasons...but I will add that there is a discord in our market vs. Mercedes or Porsche...it's sad. But I think part of the problem is a lack of serious racing pedigree during the 1950's...
As we all know racing separates.....well you know the rest.
-MF
From where I sit, I will not pass judgement on the market for personal reasons...but I will add that there is a discord in our market vs. Mercedes or Porsche...it's sad. But I think part of the problem is a lack of serious racing pedigree during the 1950's...
As we all know racing separates.....well you know the rest.
-MF
i wonder why ? it is not the first time you say that a cs is worth less than a csi, and i frankly do not understand the point, ...well, let me see, you have not given any reason for this, so it is a mere opinion, ok, you know opinions are like,...
is it because there is one more letter in the emblem ? do you think people make a mistake and take the i for an l ?
why do they bother for emblems ? much of those cars had been transformed into EFI 3,5 or what elses ?
are we talking about original, stock, matching numbers cars (like MF correctly pointed out) ? or are we worried about emblems ?
A CSi is obviously more than an emblem.
Take any BMW. The "i" in any E-car is worth more than a non-i. Whether it be an E24 or an E31 or E9.
How much more? That's debatable. Of course options play a big role in how much more. Many people value AC over non-AC. Those in northern climes can care less. Many people value PW up front; others, not so much since they're so finicky.
As far as seats...well..one can easily add leather seats for another $2k to a CSi, so that's taken into account.
Would I want a CSi over my 2800? That all depends. I gotta have a sunroof. All else I can add on if I really wanted to. Up here in Seattle, don't really need AC.
Take any BMW. The "i" in any E-car is worth more than a non-i. Whether it be an E24 or an E31 or E9.
How much more? That's debatable. Of course options play a big role in how much more. Many people value AC over non-AC. Those in northern climes can care less. Many people value PW up front; others, not so much since they're so finicky.
As far as seats...well..one can easily add leather seats for another $2k to a CSi, so that's taken into account.
Would I want a CSi over my 2800? That all depends. I gotta have a sunroof. All else I can add on if I really wanted to. Up here in Seattle, don't really need AC.