How much steering play is okay in e9?

[taylorcom]

Well ... removing the brake booster seems like a pretty big deal, since the coolant reserve tank, several hoses and other stuff is in the way. And once that's done, how do you free the steering box from the splines on the u-joint and the splines on the Pitman arm? Does the steering shaft retract somehow?

Maybe 3moons idea might be worth trying first: inserting a left-handed drill bit into the bolt hole in the box, w. the box in place. Then if that doesn't work, trying an "easy out" screw extractor (probably a smaller extractor than the one pictured).

 

[3moons]

Well ... removing the brake booster seems like a pretty big deal, since the coolant reserve tank, several hoses and other stuff is in the way. And once that's done, how do you free the steering box from the splines on the u-joint and the splines on the Pitman arm? Does the steering shaft retract somehow?

Maybe 3moons idea might be worth trying first: inserting a left-handed drill bit into the bolt hole in the box, w. the box in place. Then if that doesn't work, trying an "easy out" screw extractor (probably a smaller extractor than the one pictured).

View attachment 132504

Sorry if I wasn’t clear earlier. My suggestions were for drilling a hole to use the “easy out”, NOT drilling out the entire bolt. Being centered on and aligned with the bolt shaft is critical to using an “easy out”. That’s why I suggested leaving the steering box in place and sleeving or bushing the bolt hole first to guide for a smaller diameter drill bit. You don’t want to muck up the threads in the sub-frame or chew up the hole through the steering box either. Speaking from experience, it can get more complicated, difficult or expensive if you do.

Generally speaking, I wouldn’t take anything apart without first locking the steering column dead ahead and marking all relative positions first. The E9 owners can guide you through specifics.

Happy Holidays,
- S

 

[wilies13]

...the extractor has to be long enough and before there has to be made a hole in the rest of the bolt....
...I have personally bad expericiences with the extractors.... always the fear that it breaks and then I have evan a bigger problem...

I´m quite sure, that BMW says in their workshop manual, that the steering box has to be pulled out to the buttom.
If you want I can send you a PDF of the related pages / they are in German with pictures /
But for sure it´s not an easy job.....

 

[taylorcom]

...the extractor has to be long enough and before there has to be made a hole in the rest of the bolt....
...I have personally bad expericiences with the extractors.... always the fear that it breaks and then I have evan a bigger problem...

I´m quite sure, that BMW says in their workshop manual, that the steering box has to be pulled out to the buttom.
If you want I can send you a PDF of the related pages / they are in German with pictures /
But for sure it´s not an easy job.....

I've heard that easy outs don't always work, so my plan was to try a left-handed drill bit first, since they will sometimes lock in and remove the broken bolt. But if that doesn't work, then my plan was to try the easy out.

Yes, I'd love to see the pdf ... my German is terrible but I do understand pictures. I guess you could DM it to me here, or to my email: [email protected]. Thanks!

 

[mulberryworks]

PM sent re: workshop manual info.

 

[taylorcom]

It seems that removing the bolt-end will be difficult and prone to possibly damaging the threads. It also appears that removing the box to get better access will be difficult. I'm considering something that is not orthodox. That would be to try installing a couple of metal straps to secure the box to the subframe (after replacing the 2 other bolts). The straps would be like those pictured (which are from a recent sewer project at my home): big, heavy duty hose clamps. Whether or not that would work as a temporary solution probably depends on how much force is on the box.

Note: If everyone thinks this is a lousy idea, I will reconsider.

 

[mulberryworks]

Think about the forces involved. You have one bolt that is broken and one that's bent. Was this a single event or an accumulation of forces over time? Was there a curb or large pothole strike whose force exceeded the one bolt's limits and daily driving forces were enough to bend the second bolt?

Maybe it's more likely your car was in a somewhat stronger accident at some point that snapped the one bolt and bent the other.

Regardless, even if you replace the two unbroken bolts, you'll be operating at 2/3 capacity from the stock design that has shown itself to be inadequate to survive whatever forces it experienced. Those two hose clamps won't offer close to the holding power of a single bolt. If your car is a trailer queen and you'll just be taking it to shows, it's unlikely hose clamps will fail you.

Driving on open roads, at conventional traffic speeds, allows for precious little error and steering is not something to gamble on. Ever.

 

[taylorcom]

Excellent points. And this raises questions. I've owned the car since 1985, and can recall no potholes, big bumps, curb hits, and certainly no accidents. I imported the car from Italy ... could it have been in an accident there, pre-'85? Or could the bolt's loosening and breaking have occurred gradually over time?

How many miles I've driven with only the 2 bolts is another open question. The car steered fine, but steering seemed a bit loose. Now I know why.

 

[wilies13]

I would NOT apply the idea with the metal stripes.
- This is very safety relevant. NO experiments.
The passive safety of our old cars is not comparable with nowadays. Therefore all things have to work as best as possible.
- There are tough forces (as descibed before); think about you hit a road hole
- In case the steering box would be a little loose it could cause add. steering play

I would go to a reasonable garage. They have the needed (standard) tools for removing the steering box. Max 2h of work for them.
They have the experience and the tools to pull out the rest of the bolt. E.q. to make it very hot.
Would use the opportunity to exchange the fluid. Would use the opportunity to check all compenents; especially play.
Our cars are nowadays so valuable so that this would be an reasonable small expense.

 

[taylorcom]

It seems my metal-strap idea is not popular. So I just got back from Bowlin Bolts, Berkeley, and have picked up 3 new bolts, plus the left handed drill bit pictured below, which the proprietor recommends over an easy out. I'll give it a try ... w/o removing the box.

 

[3moons]

Can’t see the top of the bolts.
On my Bavaria:

Godspeed,
- S

 

[taylorcom]

My new bolts say the same: 8.8. Bowlin seems to be an honest, helpful place. I brought one of the originals for them to match. They charged me $5 for the three.

 

[3moons]

 

[taylorcom]

Happy 2022, everyone!

Progress report: The left-handed drill bit did not "catch" and remove the bolt-end as I'd hoped. I'm now thinking of trying an easy-out, but have been warned that easy-outs can break. Can anyone recommend a brand of easy-out that's less prone to breakage? Ryobi easy-outs are common, and inexpensive, but get bad reviews on Amazon for breaking easily.

 

[JFENG]

The straight sided easy outs are very brittle, in my limited experience. Those tapered left hand threaded extractors are much better, again in my very limited experience. When I use these, I drill a hole that lets me use the larger diameter portion of the extractor.

I’ve always bought my extractors and drill bits from industrial (B2B) machine tool supplier/distributors. The quality is usually very good and often the prices are LOWER than Amazon. Ask a custom machining business where they get their bits and consumable tools.

Example: PTS in Detroit

IMHO, everything possible should be done to break the corrosion that is keeping the fastener stuck in the hole before using an easy out of any design.

 

[skk]

There are alternatives to messing around with drills and easy outs.
First, soak the thing in PB blaster every few hours for days. If you have access,
grind an old screwdriver into appropriate small chisel end to your liking and use
it to get the thing moving. And (safely) use heat. Do you have a mapp torch?

Next level is weld a nobbin on top of the broken bolt/stud and work it out with a bite-y wrench. A skilled mech with MIG or oxy/acy. can do this in minutes, weld/cool/weld/cool/weld to get the blob big enough to grab.

Broken studs are bread and butter for shops that do exhaust work.

Be safe, wear all protection, welding barriers, fire extinguisher nearby.

Maybe use studs and nuts to replace

 

[3moons]

Rennsteig Screw Extractors

These get good reviews, German made. I haven’t used them myself. I have the kind that break.

Happy New Year!
- S

 

[taylorcom]

ssk:

Thanks. I've been soaking it in WD-40.

I don't have a heat source, and I haven't removed the box. So one issue is access, since there's about a 3/4" piece of the steering-box housing that separates the threads in the subframe from the outer end of the bolt (as seen in pic). So access and visibility are limited.

I did experiment with a long screwdriver bit that seems to grab the hole I drilled. I used a wrench to grab the screwdriver bit, but I don't think the broken bolt has moved yet. As you suggest, maybe grinding the screwdriver end could sharpen it so it grabs better.

 

[taylorcom]

This shows the "lip" separating the threads in subframe from top of the bolt: