Inner fender covering plate(s) questions

[Stevehose]

As part of my prep for the drive to Amelia Island next week I am doing my annual cleaning out and re-waxoiling of the top fenders and the caves. Then I looked at the rear cover that fits over the A pillar and thought - do I uncover king tut's tomb and see what lurks behind? So I cut away 42 years of undercoating and unscrewed the 2 bolts and got the cover off and fortunately all solid metal behind (looks like black primer from the factory?):

Plate:

midsection:

lower section at bottom of fender:

My question is the about the top section, is it welded on? If so how to get it off:

So are these the correct part numbers (they are in different diagrams)?

Upper pieces: 41141814035 & 6
Lower pieces: 51711813031 & 2

And does anyone know a substitute for the rubber seal that goes around the edges that is NLA:

51711836667

Thanks.

 

[phead82]

Steve,

I'm working on exactly the same area currently.
I believe the rubber seal is part #51711836667, and I already reached out to TomkinsonBMW - here's their reply:

"Part number 51711836667 looks to be discontinued by BMW.
BMW has no replacement information regarding that part number. If you have the old one I suggest checking with a local vendor, such as a glass company, to see if they would have available something that is close to what you're looking for. Sorry, but I just don't have any information on parts for those old cars."

I too am asking the question: is this the correct part number?

If so, has anyone here replaced this rubber seal with an alternative seal that works and can share their knowledge here?

Thanks.

 

[Stevehose]

Looks like W&N lists a part for the seals:

http://www.wallothnesch.com/dichtung-fuer-schottblech-zur-a-saeule-fuer-alle-modelle-41-08-09.html

It's called the mud cover seal but it doesn't jive with the Penske diagram.

What is the difference between #7 51711836667 SEAL FOR COVER PLATE (04/71 to 11/75) and #11 51715776180 SEALING (meter) ??

W&N's appears to be the latter but described as the former...

 

[John Buchtenkirch]

What I did.

It may not be to everyone's liking but I just eliminated the rubber gaskets altogether. I got thin stainless and made my own shields and then sealed them with 3M brand fast and firm auto body sealer. After the sealer had a week or so to dry I covered everything with black undercoating. I also made stainless shields for the slot at the top of the fenders and sealed them up as well. If I had to do it again I'd probably seal that slot with plastic hose after filling the ends of the hose with sealer so it wouldn't hold water, anything to keep road grit out of that slot :smile:. ~ John Buchtenkirch

 

[phead82]

What is the difference between #7 51711836667 SEAL FOR COVER PLATE (04/71 to 11/75) and #11 51715776180 SEALING (meter) ??

#7 seems to be the right type of seal judging by it's footprint but I am absolutely blank on #11??
I cannot even figure out where that one's supposed to go. Any idea?

Thanks for the info on the W&N seal! It looks to be the right one.

 

[Stevehose]

Excellent idea, and can be removed for periodic cleaning.

If I had to do it again I'd probably seal that slot with plastic hose after filling the ends of the hose with sealer so it wouldn't hold water

 

[weasel51]

fender covering plate rubber

I just did this to my car and #11 is the piece you want. Buy 1 meter. That will cover both sides.

 

[John Buchtenkirch]

Excellent idea, and can be removed for periodic cleaning.

No no, I should have been more specific. What I would do is glue the plastic tubing in with 3M fast and firm after I cleaned out the slot and painted it. On my own coupe I made stainless U-channels to fill that slot. Even with all the equipment I have in my shop they were a bit of a pain to make because they have to curve to fit the fender and the U shape has to taper because the slot is wider in the back than in the front. The plastic tube idea was an idea that almost anyone could do on their own coupe.

On my own coupe I made up a curved copper extension for my blow tip to blow out the sand and grit that had accumulated in that slot. You cannot believe how much stuff came out, I had to wear a dust mask and my hair was full of dirt. I let it dry out for a few days and then blew when DuPont vari-prime which is supposed to neutralize any surface rust, that is the green you are seeing on top of the undercoating in my photos. After letting that dry for a week I glued the stainless U-channels in with the fast and firm sealer. Hopefully they are watertight but there is small drains at the very front of the Fender skirt. Personally I have no faith in the rubber seals, capillary action will draw water into even the slightest crack IMO. ~ John Buchtenkirch

 

[Sven]

My question is the about the top section, is it welded on? If so how to get it off:

Yes, it is welded at two spots along the bottom edge IIRC.

 

[Stevehose]

I see your point about the capillary action, I am now thinking of a temporary piece to put in before encountering possible bad weather on road trips. I am not sure I want to completely seal them off, because moisture could possibly get in from other areas and stay trapped. I want the ability to blow air in there from time to time and know it's dry.

I am going to blast another batch of waxoil up there then I think I am going to block the rails with tubing for trips to keep most of the highway debris and water out then the usual times just keep them open and allow air to get to them when driving in nice weather which is 99% of the time.

I have unused Volvo liners that I am not sure will fit without rubbing on my 215/60/15 tires and lowered front end.

Do any of you run the Volvo liners with lowered suspension and your 16" alpinas?.

No no, I should have been more specific. What I would do is glue the plastic tubing in with 3M fast and firm after I cleaned out the slot and painted it. On my own coupe I made stainless U-channels to fill that slot. Even with all the equipment I have in my shop they were a bit of a pain to make because they have to curve to fit the fender and the U shape has to taper because the slot is wider in the back than in the front. The plastic tube idea was an idea that almost anyone could do on their own coupe.

On my own coupe I made up a curved copper extension for my blow tip to blow out the sand and grit that had accumulated in that slot. You cannot believe how much stuff came out, I had to wear a dust mask and my hair was full of dirt. I let it dry out for a few days and then blew when DuPont vari-prime which is supposed to neutralize any surface rust, that is the green you are seeing on top of the undercoating in my photos. After letting that dry for a week I glued the stainless U-channels in with the fast and firm sealer. Hopefully they are watertight but there is small drains at the very front of the Fender skirt. Personally I have no faith in the rubber seals, capillary action will draw water into even the slightest crack IMO. ~ John Buchtenkirch
View attachment 10030

View attachment 10031

 

[Sven]

Do any of you run the Volvo liners with lowered suspension and your 16" alpinas?.

I do. My tires are narrower 205/55/16 and the suspension (although using Carl's lowering springs and HD Bilsteins) rides a little higher than it should. Distance ground to top of wheel well is 25-7/8" .

Ideally the Volvo liners engage the fender lip when it's at 90° to the fender. Once you flare the lip there is nothing for the fender to attach to in that section. I have not had any problems with tire contact. I am trading a bit of height for the ability to use these liners. Also, even with the fender lips bent upwards, the plastic liner itself could potentially rub on the tire (although more forgiving if it does).

 

[Stan]

Another Option

http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4463&highlight=Lokari

 

[bavbob]

On my Bavaria I just sealed it with 3M caulking strip to make it water tight but reversible. I did not do a side by side comparison, but the shield is quite similar to that on my e24, perhaps the seal for that is available and can be modified.

After removal, I took my shop vac and was able to run the hose (no attachments) all the way down the rocker to the rear wheel and pulled out tons of crap. I know the E9 construction differs along the rocker and this may not be possible.

 

[JFENG]

Mario has done a bunch of installs on these Lokari

I liked what he did enough that I got a set for mine (as did a number of other New Englanders).

 

[John Buchtenkirch]

I see your point about the capillary action, I am now thinking of a temporary piece to put in before encountering possible bad weather on road trips. I am not sure I want to completely seal them off, because moisture could possibly get in from other areas and stay trapped. I want the ability to blow air in there from time to time and know it's dry.

I am going to blast another batch of waxoil up there then I think I am going to block the rails with tubing for trips to keep most of the highway debris and water out then the usual times just keep them open and allow air to get to them when driving in nice weather which is 99% of the time.

I have unused Volvo liners that I am not sure will fit without rubbing on my 215/60/15 tires and lowered front end.

Do any of you run the Volvo liners with lowered suspension and your 16" alpinas?.

I personally like the wax-based rust prevention materials that never dry, however only in sealed panels that dirt, grit and tree droppings can't get to. If you insist on leaving that upper slot open (I don't recommend it at all) I wouldn't have sprayed that sticky material into that cavity, it's only going to capture road grit and hold it. Consider sealing up the slot as I suggested and having rubber plugs on both ends that you can pull out and blow slightly pressurized air through that cavity after using your Coupe in the rain or consider the Lokari shields other members have been mentioning or the Volvo liners if they fit correctly.

Older body man that have been around for a while view the car's tires as being centrifugal sand blasters that also throw water at times, once the undercoating dries out and becomes brittle the road grit breaks it up and beats it off and then the water takes over or even worse dreaded salt brine. Having road grit up in that cavity / slot that will hold water for weeks once wet is the absolute last thing you want, believe me. I make my claims not from being an expert chemist regarding rust proofing materials, only from many years of observations of removing and replacing damaged panels on collision damaged cars in the Northeast. ~ John Buchtenkirch

P.S. one of my favorite personal tricks is to install undercoating nozzles and wands on spray cans of rust preventing paint and use that combination to spray paint into cracks and cavities, that would work well on that upper slot once all the road grit was blown out. The paint is thin enough that it will creep into the smallest cracks and spaces before it dries.

 

[Stevehose]

I use Penetrol which gets everywhere then after 24 hours or so dries to point not to collect grit. Longterm i will do Lokaris and take them off once a year or so for cleaning. For my upcoming road trip i have plugged the fender channels with rubber strips to keep the water out on the way down. Then i will pull them out once i get there and the rain has (hopefully) left