Interesting "individual" 3.0 CSL with BMW sunroof

[CSL 1973]

This very interesting Fjord RHD CSL is one of the very few CSLs with a BMW sunroof. Officially not an option, but it's known nowadays that some clients requested their individual CSL. For instance, equipped with with CSi seats, special color and Rims. Some cars also has a sunroof etc.

A rare "individual/client special request" CSL with BMW power sunroof and CSL black headliner:

http://www.4starclassics.com/BMW-E9-CSL-Fjord-Blue/

Cheers
Henric

 

[DerSchwede]

Pity though that they forgot the black stripes behind the front qp vents after the respray - although claiming that the car has not been restored...

The steering wheel doesn't even look good in the E3 71-73 where it's coming from - even less so in this E9.

Are there any documents actually showing the build spec of this car providing proof of the factory sun roof combined with the light body? I thought that this "option" only was possible with a normal CS-body - even for SO-cars.

Why does it have the standard hood opening/closing divices AND the CSL stick? EDIT: city pack, ok. Wouldn't surprise me if ít turns out it was rebuilt within its first 10 years alive and given a "new" CS-body and passing on the original VIN to that body!

Regards
A

 

[CSL 1973]

Indeed, the sunroof option, special color or special Rims etc were not part of the official options listed for a CSL. However, clients requests are still a fact for some few CSL cars. The most famous ones are the "Hoeness" and the "Gauntlett" CSLs.

Hoeness Bat-CSL was delivered from factory in a "non-CSL color", with wider wings, specially designed stripes and special Rims. Gauntlett's RHD CSL was ordered new from factory with CSi leder seats and has a BMW power sunroof.

Interesting to note is that there are only 14 VIN numbers between Gauntlett's sunroof CSL and the above mentioned Fjord RHD sunroof CSL. Coincidence or ...

BTW, I think there is a forum member from Finland, who's father ordered a LHD injection CSL new from factory with CSi seats. More info about that special order would be interesting to know.

Cheers
Henric

 

[merlin32]

Hi Henric
Did you know what happend with Uli Hoenes CSl?
cheers Markus

 

[CSLCOUPE]

Bet that vinyl top is hiding something .

 

[CSL 1973]

Hallo Markus,

Not really. The last info I have received about the Hoeness Bat, was that it most likely was one of the very last 57 Bats.

Best would be if we cld try to contact "der Uli". I think he is still involved in FC Bayern München, but maybe he still remember the good old CSL-days.

MfG
Henric

 

[merlin32]

Hallo Henric,
I hope he loved his CSL, because, i had the annoce in Automotorsport (1974?) he offert his 1973 911RS. (Think i postet the photo from the annoce here last year..? )
Hmm Uli contact??? My grandma lived in hausham (tegernsee) mybe i must visit him.. quick

 

[CSL 1973]

As regards the Uli Hoeness Special Order Bat, this is the detailed info I have digged up:

the 4355xxx Bat was very likely one of the very last in the 57 batch. It had a three-fin rear spoiler, a stripes-set with the letters "uh" integrated at the side of the car. Furthermore, his Special Order CSL was equipped with an electric adjustable side mirror and the street version of the BBS racing wheels.

The car had the full bat-kit and the exterior color looks like dark-green or dark blue. The car was also equipped with headlight cleaners. It looks like the wider wings are of the style that Zender provided for E9 cars during the 70 and 80s.

Uli picked-up his Special Order CSL directly at the Factory in Munich around the summer 1975 and stated: "Das ist mein Traumwagen" to the journalist.

The last part of the registration plate was 2257.

Grüss

Henric

 

[merlin32]

Henric, i love your posts, always nice details...
grüsse markus

 

[Arde]

Maybe the BAT now belongs to the tax collector:

"On 20 April 2013, it was reported that Hoeneß is being investigated for tax evasion.[4] He is reported to have held a Swiss bank account for the purpose of evading taxes due on investment income, and to owe between €3.2 million and €7 million in taxes to the German state.[5]"

 

[merlin32]

Yes Arde you a right, that´s why i wrote:"My grandma lived in hausham (tegernsee) mybe i must visit him..: quick "

cheers Markus

 

[lip277]

And that fuel filler door fitment is not right either...

Just sayin'

 

[Gerrit]

Sunroof CSL

Henric,

Do you have any hard evidence that your CSL or for that matter any CSL was ordered and factory produced with a sunroof?

Cheers,

Gerrit

 

[CSL 1973]

Hallo Gerrit,

The answer for the momemt is pretty straight forward: no hard evidence from the first owners nor BMW for these sunroof CSL-cars.

Maybe, I could say not yet, because I'm working on tracing the first owners of these CSLs. Two cars lives in USA and some three-four cars lives in Europe. Of course, I have ruled-out all kind of aftermarket/custom sunroof types (e.g. "Skyport" etc). I am only talking about the CSL cars with the real integrated BMW sunroof (manual or power version) with the genuine black CSL headliner.

I have talked to BMW Classic archive and they cannot confirm, as all the detailed "Build sheets" for the CSL cars were thrown away many years ago. However, BMW has confirmed to me that, officially, sunroof was not an CSL option. But they could not "entirely exclude" that some few CSL cars had a sunroof conversion at the time.

There is a first owner of a CSL car, who has confirmed that he ordered a CSL with leather CSi seats when his car was new. Another CSL first-owner is confirmed to have picked-up his car at the factory in Munich in 1974. I think that CSL had special rims. There were obviously some different exceptions and special handling in relation to the CSL cars in the early 70s.

As regards the BMW sunroof, on the known CSL cars, I see three possibilities:

1: Client request via the BMW dealer directly to the factory - when the car was still at the factory - "My customer wants a CSL with a sunroof. Pls arrange this - he will pay for it"

2: Client request to the BMW dealer - when the car was still unsold at the BMW branch - " I will buy this CSL but want a sunroof - pls arrange this".

3. Private roof conversion arranged by the owner of the car.

As regards my own CSL (non city-pack with added Bat kit and Bat color):

when I saw the car for the first time, I thougt it was a CSi as it had a sunroof. However, after carefully checking the VIN, matching engine number and veryfying all the CSL-specific parts and doing the CSL-controls etc, I realised it was a real non-city pack CSL with a BMW sunroof.

I have traced the car back to when it was sold new by BMW in Bonn October 1972. I have also visited the BMW branch in Bonn for a deaper analyse of their records of the car (was BMW Bonn involved in the sunroof or not!?). As their records, in the the computer, does not goes back to 1972, I have to consult their paper archives, stored in "the catacombs somewhere in Bonn". I'm not there yet, but hopefully I can get there.

That's the status by June 2013.

Sorry for the long reply

MfG
Henric

 

[Keshav]

Special order CSL's

CSL 1973,
your knowledge on CSL's is infact phenomenal. Always interesting to read your threads, full of interesting and rare information. My question today is: Do you think/ know that those CSL's that have/ had sunroofs from the factory, if the sunroofs were in conjunction with the 'thin' roofs or with the regular CS gauge metal roofs? I personally wonder if the thin roofs could handle an open sunroof (while driving at speeds of 180 kms/ per hour without warping?
regards. Keshav

 

[CSLCOUPE]

A CSL roof won't support a damp bath towel .

 

[CSL 1973]

I fully agree that a CSL roof wld normally not support a sunroof. However, pls remember that the surface outside the sunroof area is much smaller and therefore less wobbling. To add to the mystery (and to my neighbours happiness): I'm frequently doing the roof test on my CSL. Think it's the normal E9 thick gauge. But, it's very easy to push it down and it pops-up immediately.

Mystery 2: I have scratched and scratched my black headliner for a any trace of white. But no. It is CSL-black and perfectly done for a sunroof - not a home made version.

Mystery 3: I have no roof-mounted interior light. If the roof was taken from a normal E9, I think there should be traces of a roof-mounted interior light (I have never seen a non CSL E9 car without a roof-mounted interior light).

I wld not be surprised if Karmann was involved in the special order CSLs. They were sitting on many bare chassis and it would be very easy for them to switch roof. Remember that the CSLs were very difficult to sell during the 70s. If a client wished something and was ready to pay for it, I don't see how BMW could refuse such demand.

Interesting to note 1: from more or less the same time period 1968-1973, was the Ferrari 365 GTB/4 (Daytona). Because of client requests 1971-1973, that car exist also as Spider version (115 LHD + 7 RHD cars out of some 1406 built). The conversion was requested by clients and was done by Scaglietti. Because of the higher value for the Spider version, some extra conversions were done later on.

Interesting to note 2: officially there were no BMW M1 with full leather seats. Still there are at least two M1s with full leather seats. And no, the seats were not made after the delivery. One is still owned by BMW, I think. Special order 1978.

Interesting to note 3: One of the last built Lamborghini Countach 25th anniversary was sprayed at the factory in a non-official color combo; lightblue metallic with pink leather. On request from a client in Saudi Arabia.

Interesting to note 4: another very late Countch 25th anniversary (red/beige) was ordered new with a special sport exhaust system. The system was built by a subcontractor to Lamborghini. With the usual delay, the car was ready before the sport system and the car was delivered (with the standard system) in 1990 to a client in Sweden. The sport system is still in storage at the factory in Modena.

Ciao

Henric

 

[CSL 1973]

Just to clarify (we had a discussion, about the CSL options, at the coffee-break at work and I had some difficulties to convince the girls in the secretariat), these were the official list of payable options for the CSL (price in brackets):

Carb version:

No options list. However, clients could ask their lokal BMW dealer to instruct the factory to deliver their new CSL directly to Alpina for the B2-S modifications. At Alpina in 1972, Hans-Jurgen Pagel took good care of these administrative arrangements.

LHD injection and the first series of bat (production codes 3451 and 7071) - options list as from June 1974:

Motorsport-strips but only for Chamonix and Polaris (free of charge)
Rear 2-point interia reel safety belts (131 DM)
Head light wipers/washers (397 DM)
Second wing mirror - right side (26 DM)
First aid kit (34 DM)
Warning triangle (13 DM)
Metallic paintwork (680 DM)
Velour carpets front & rear (105 DM)
Lockable petrol filler cap (17 DM)
Large tool-kit (148 DM)
Power steering (815 DM)
Power windows (547 DM)
Tinted heat absorbing glass with laminated windscreen/Verbundglas (392 DM)
AC + tinted heat absorbing glass with laminated windscreen/Verbundglas (2727 DM)
CS/CSi bonnet lock - from inside (59 DM)

CSL Radios:
Becker Europa with automatic Antenna (730 DM)
Becker Grand Prix with automatic Antenna (950 DM)
Blaupunkt Bamberg CR Stereo with manuel Antenna (1090 DM) or with automatic Antenna (1330 DM)


Town kit:
standard CSi chassis with steel doors, large tool kit in luggage compartment lid, power rear windows, CS/CSi bonnet lock, power steering, CS/CSi velour carpeting and color stripes (black, dark blue or dark green) along the sides.

Bat-kit for the bat cars:
this was a "free of charge" delivery on all bats, independant of the clients' wishes. In Germany it was delivered in the boot, but for most other markets it was allowed on the car. As from 1st of July 1973, the price of the CSL increased with 3000 DM. The common opinion, at the time, was that the increase in price was mainly because of the bat-kit.

Note 1: the first time the E9 options are listed, in a special printed leaflet and including the CSL options, is the 24th of June 1974. However the CSL-options were internally listed by BMW adressing their dealer-network via the so called "Schnell-Information" nr 6/72 (dated 9/8/1972).

Note 2: the last listing for the CSL options is the 25th of August 1975. The only two additions in 1975's list are the option for the stronger Battery 55Ah (41 DM) and BMW Bavaria radio with Antenna (473 DM).

Conclusion:
the first printed official "BMW Preisliste" leaflet, with the CSL included, I have seen is from February 1973. The CSL is listed for 32 700 DM, but not listed for any specific CSL options.

I think, as from June 1974, BMW were more specific with the options for the CSL ("Das BMW Sonderausstattungs Programm"). Before June 1974, it was, most likely, possible to request options from the CS/CSi list. Of course, with the exceptions that not all were possible for the CSL. Based on the experience, from what clients had requested before June 1974 as options for the CSL, it "shaped" the official and printed CSL-options list from BMW.

This means that most of the Injection CSLs, produced between September 1972 - June 1973 and the Bats produced July - October 1973, were equipped with the Town-kit (as it was a free of charge option) and a variation of individually chosen E9 options. The last batch of 57 Bats (1/1974 -10/1975 with production code 7071), were also most often equipped with the Town-package (as from 1974 a payable option) and various other options.

As regards the RHD CSLs, they had a different approach.

Cheers

Henric

 

[2275xxx]

For Henric

Automobil Revue 27 Nov 1975

 

[Keshav]

I would be very interested to know if the large bat wing, both, with 2 (2275xxx) or 3 (4355xxx) horizontal slats and roof hoops were possible to buy off the shelf or were they ONLY produced for the L's.
Furthermore, did all the BAT's (110/ 2275's and 57 4355's), city pack or not, get the wings delivered in the trunk or did one specifically have to ask for them? Meaning, did any of the above not have the large wing/ roof hoop along with the car? Finally, even if some didn't get the large wing, they probably still got the steel trunk lid instead of the Alu? Were some left hand L's also delivered with steel skin doors? There doesn't seem to be any 'hard and fast rule' as to which L's got the full Alu packet either!
If none of the above applies, across the board, then it would be quite difficult if not impossible to tell exactly which were extra light (other than the early carb L's). Pity that BMW didn't have a plaque (like MB did in that era with all individual specs) in the car.
Apologies for the multiple questions but eagerly awaiting answers from the knowers!
Keshav