Is this wire why my starter doesn't work????

[verde2002]

Quick recap, I tried to start my car, it cranked for a few seconds and just stopped. Battery is good. I was looking to where I can attach a direct wire from battery to starter and found this black wire in the area that wasn't plugged to anything. Circled in red in the attached photos. Anyone know what this wire is for? Also where do I connect the wire from the battery to the starter? I can barely see the starter and I think what I am looking at is not the actual starter, it has a red and black wire as you can see in the photo. An explanation of where I can make the connection along with maybe a photo or two would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Honolulu]

It could be. I can't remember the correct number of wires that are supposed to connect to the front end of the solenoid, but if the one from the ignition is not there, you engine won't crank. IIRC that wire is black.

That said, it is hard to believe the engine would crank, then not, and the wire would be far from where it's supposed to be... unless you pulled it out for photo purposes.

 

[verde2002]

Yes, I moved the wire as it was difficult to get a photo of where it originally was.

 

[Ohmess]

In addition to the big fat power wire, there are two wires attached to my starter. One runs from to the ignition coil, and the other comes from the ignition switch circuit and activates the solenoid.

I believe that the car will turn over, but not start if the ignition coil wire is not connected (not positive about this one). On the other hand, the starter will not turn over if the other wire is not connected.

I recently ran a new big fat wire from my starter to the battery, and as I recall the ignition circuit wire runs to the top of the solenoid. On my car, the connector was actually rather loose, and I have also accidentally pulled it off when changing a coolant hose.

Mine was not loose enough to fall off, but what you are describing could happen if the wire became disconnected while you were cranking over your car. If this were to happen, it would not crank at all until the wire was connected again.

Can you get a look at your starter to determine whether three wires are connected to it?

 

[verde2002]

In addition to the big fat power wire, there are two wires attached to my starter. One runs from to the ignition coil, and the other comes from the ignition switch circuit and activates the solenoid.

I believe that the car will turn over, but not start if the ignition coil wire is not connected (not positive about this one). On the other hand, the starter will not turn over if the other wire is not connected.

I recently ran a new big fat wire from my starter to the battery, and as I recall the ignition circuit wire runs to the top of the solenoid. On my car, the connector was actually rather loose, and I have also accidentally pulled it off when changing a coolant hose.

Mine was not loose enough to fall off, but what you are describing could happen if the wire became disconnected while you were cranking over your car. If this were to happen, it would not crank at all until the wire was connected again.

Can you get a look at your starter to determine whether three wires are connected to it?

Would you know where the loose black wire I have pictured goes? Very hard to see as the starter is hidden by hoses and other items.

 

[Stevehose]

It will start but won't be getting full cranking 12v, the coil instead being fed by the ballast circuit.

I believe that the car will turn over, but not start if the ignition coil wire is not connected (not positive about this one).

 

[Ohmess]

Would you know where the loose black wire I have pictured goes? Very hard to see as the starter is hidden by hoses and other items.

Its hard to say; that wire may be a vestige of a component that was disconnected over the years, or it may be the key to your problem. I have several orphan wires from changes made to my car over the years. It would be odd to have that wire come off while cranking the engine; its designed not to do that. On the other hand, that wire is in the right location to be your problem.

On my car, which is a 3.0, that wire connects to a horizontal tab on the top of the solenoid that is tucked up under the intake manifold. The only way I can see it is with a mirror and a flashlight. Not sure if the 2800 has the same solenoid wiring configuration, but if you have a dental mirror and flashlight, you might try using them to examine the connectors, and see if you have three wires connected to the solenoid. Also, the tab should look relatively clean compared to other stuff in there because it would have been protected by the connector for year and years.

 

[sfdon]

Early cars with points used resisters to keep the voltage down to a leval where damage wouldnt occur.
The exception was during starting when the best spark was needed. That is the reason there is a black/red wire connected between the starter and the coil.
It's only hot when the engine is being cranked. It is attached to the solenoid at the 12:00 position.
The black wire is attached at 6:00 and originates at the ignition switch.

 

[verde2002]

Early cars with points used resisters to keep the voltage down to a leval where damage wouldnt occur.
The exception was during starting when the best spark was needed. That is the reason there is a black/red wire connected between the starter and the coil.
It's only hot when the engine is being cranked. It is attached to the solenoid at the 12:00 position.
The black wire is attached at 6:00 and originates at the ignition switch.

Are you referring to the thin black wire I have circled? That connects in the six o clock position?

 

[verde2002]

Can someone supply a photo of where this is connected?

 

[HB Chris]

You need one wire at 12:00 and one at 6:00, they don't go to the same terminal so plug it into the one without a wire attached currently.

 

[Ohmess]

Are you referring to the thin black wire I have circled? That connects in the six o clock position?

Yes. Don is saying I had the connections mixed up, and that the one which initiates the solenoid causing the starter to turn is at the bottom, and not the top of the solenoid.

 

[sfdon]

Correct.
Black/red at top

Black at bottom

 

[verde2002]

So I ran a wire from the red wire of the solenoid and continued to tap the positive tab of the battery terminal and then remove it and at first nothing happened. I hit the starter a few times then it started to click as if the battery had no power to start it and then after a few clicks it would stop again, hammer the starter and same, it will click a few times then nothing. When clicking I do see some sparks from the starter itself. So now is it the starter or the solenoid and can one be replaced or is it a package??

 

[jmackro]

I tried to start my car, it cranked for a few seconds and just stopped.

Can you clarify what happened a couple months ago in a little more detail. What "just stopped"?

- Did the starter run for a few seconds, and then the starter just stopped before the engine caught?

- Did the starter run, start the engine, and then after a few seconds the engine just stopped?

All this discussion of ballast resistors pertains to the second scenario, but would be irrelevant to the first.

And if it's the first scenario, what happens when you try turning the key to "start" again later? Is the starter dead or does it behave the same way?

is it the starter or the solenoid and can one be replaced or is it a package??

Your solenoid is probably the culprit. You can replace just the solenoid, but you have to remove the whole starter assembly to get at it. And by the time you've done that, you might as well have the starter rebuilt. Or replace it with a later / higher torque starter; other threads discuss which models will will fit e9's.

 

[Stevehose]

Yes, you don't want to remove/replace this twice. PITA.

And by the time you've done that, you might as well have the starter rebuilt. Or replace it with a later / higher torque starter; other threads discuss which models will will fit e9's.

 

[verde2002]

Can you clarify what happened a couple months ago in a little more detail. What "just stopped"?

- Did the starter run for a few seconds, and then the starter just stopped before the engine caught?

****Yes, starter ran for about 10 seconds and stopped. Car had not been driven for a while so I asume it takes some time for the gas to make it to the carbs.

- Did the starter run, start the engine, and then after a few seconds the engine just stopped?

****Engine never started, it was waiting for fuel to get to it.

All this discussion of ballast resistors pertains to the second scenario, but would be irrelevant to the first.

And if it's the first scenario, what happens when you try turning the key to "start" again later? Is the starter dead or does it behave the same way?

****The starter will click a few times then nothing, once I bang on the starter and solenoid it will click again a when I crank and then nothing.



Your solenoid is probably the culprit. You can replace just the solenoid, but you have to remove the whole starter assembly to get at it. And by the time you've done that, you might as well have the starter rebuilt. Or replace it with a later / higher torque starter; other threads discuss which models will will fit e9's.

on a side note the photo of the loose black wire remains disconnected. Not sure what it is for still.

 

[jmackro]

on a side note the photo of the loose black wire remains disconnected. Not sure what it is for still.

I'm not sure what it's for either - you're going to have to do some more work, such as tracing where it comes from, counting the # of wires that are connected to the starter, ....

As others have written, there are typically two, small gauge wires attached to an e9's starter solenoid. One brings power when the key is turned to "Start". The other picks up that power and sends it to the coil, bypassing the ballast resistor. If that second wire came loose, it wouldn't effect the starter operation, but might result in the engine having a hard time starting.

So if there are two, small-gauge wires still attached to your solenoid, then our guess that it is the wire which bypasses the ballast is not correct. Another guess: The wire that powers the rear carb's electric choke (do your carbs have electric chokes?).

If there is just one small wire attached to the starter solenoid, a little time with a multimeter will determine if the other end of that loose wire goes to the coil.

 

[verde2002]

Any recommendations on what starter to purchase? Looking online remanufactured units sell anywhere between $50 to over $300. What is so different about them for such a big gap in pricing? Any particular manufacturer or supplier I should avoid?

 

[HB Chris]

Get the Bosch SR-440 or 441 or just ask for an e30 M3 starter, the case is smaller and shorter, it has a permanent magnet and spins much faster. You can use an SR-71x but make sure it is the smaller starter, some are re manufactured and still the old style case.