Kidney grills, 5 vs 4 slats

[Keshav]

Hello all,
This might get controversial and I welcome all to give their opinions, most of all those who own (or have so in the past) face lift cars from the beginning or atlest very early after production.
In my opinion and that of a few face lift car owners, the commonly used 4 black plastic grills were never ever installed on E9‘s, rather only on late model E3’s!
My take is that since the grills are interchangeable and the 4 slat ones were easier and cheaper to get than the 4 slat ones in the mid late 70’s onwards, especially the 5 black anodized slats type, the swap thus came to be. Being that those 4 slat ones were factory installed in the late E3’s, the E9 face lift grill theory came into fashion and developed a false perception as being a factory installed grill. Brochures might have such grills depicted (don’t know) but in fact they were always the 5 slat grills.
So, based on this arguement all E9’s should have the 5 slat grill with either silver or black slats!

Keshav

 

[bavbob]

IDK. Mine has 4 slats and car was never hit in front and the one there looks pretty ancient. That said, I am not the original owner.
What do judges look for at shows, do they make a distinction? BTW, No shows for me, when they put a q-tip in my AC vent of my Bavaria, I threw in the towel.

 

[HB Chris]

We may never solve this mystery but to add to your comments, 51 13 1 826 809, the plastic four slat grille is listed in the Orange e3 parts book as being on all facelift (Modell 73, USA Modell 74) Sedans.

The original black five slat kidney is 51 13 1 819 632 and the polished kidney is 51 13 1 801 604. The e9 parts book shows the black kidney only on the CSL with 809 replacing 632 retroactively which supports your theory.

What is strange is that the e9 ETK (not RealOEM) shows 809 being implemented beginning 9/73 which is the start of the facelift models. This is the same time that BMW introduced black plastic kidneys on the 2002 as well. We have seen many facelift e9 with the early kidneys and I have changed my thinking that perhaps the 809 was introduced near the end of 1974?

(and lots of coupes with 632 grilles that were supposedly last produced by BMW in 1982)

 

[Keshav]

We know that all 4355xx Csl’s, built in 74 and 75 had the 5 slat grill and not only because they were Csl’s (they had the face life door card design, black wiper arms etc common to the standard coupes too) and all the late E9’s I’ve seen where the owners pride themselves for originality had primarily the 5 black slat grills. Here’s a pic of our friend Christoph’s car 1975 2.5CS (cs-werke.de) which is all original. I’ve yet to see an E9 which is claimed to have the original 4 slat grill. Argument being, if the last Bats and most known E9’s all had the 5 slat grills, it’s very unlikely that a few had the 4 slat grills.

 

[tochi]

I do not pretend to be a scholar on this or any other subject.

Strangely, this question may have been raised in connection with another discussion regarding the number of holes in the nose panel behind the front bumper. Likewise, the argument regarding chrome or black hood and fender grills.

Anecdotally, an argument can be made that both E9s and E3s started out with ten slats and that production runs evolved following cost reductions, if not styling changes that were intended for the North American market (e.g., big bumpers). I can't recall seeing any of the newer styling cues as part of racing liveries, and the same argument probably holds true to the final run of E9s. Since the csl models were never targeted toward the North American market (with big bumpers), it only stands to reason that few, if any, would be dressed in the fatter-looking eight slat center grills. That said, it would not be surprising in the slightest to see grill variations from the factory.

Presumably, eight slat-center grills are less expensive to produce than ten slat grills, and when the ten slat stockpile was exhausted or less available, they were replaced by the less expensive eight slat versions.

This looks like the newer fatter eight-slat kidney grille, but it has ten slats.

 

[mpgandco]

Both my very LATE 74 "produced in Dec 74" sold new in Mar 75" and my Bat produced in 75 have 10 Black Slats.Going back probably more than 30 years, I believe all Coupes,even the 1976 2.5 CS had 10 slat Front Grills.If I remember correctly when the 10 Slat Grill supply dried up years ago they were superseded by the cheaper 8 slat black grills.I bought my Green Coupe in 1980 and it was 100% Original Paint and Trim.I have the Original Grill hanging in my garage.The Bat has its original grill as well.Both were 10 Slats

 

[Keshav]

Coupe in 1980 and it was 100% Original Paint and Trim.I have the Original Grill hanging in my garage

was that original one with silver or back slats? I’ll guess black slats like the Csl’s have!

 

[mpgandco]

Black Slats,I think the Silver Slats are for earlier cars than 74

 

[HB Chris]

Mike, Your 74 has the ten slat polished kidney?

 

[mpgandco]

Looking at the pictures posted above, I don't ever remember the 4 slat Grills with the BIG FAT Aluminum Frames being Original.They don't even look correct on the car. If that is all you could get back then and you wanted a new one,that is what you bought.Could be wrong, but I have looked at enough Coupes in my lifetime as to where I think I am correct

 

[mpgandco]

Black Slats on both Cars

 

[HB Chris]

Mike, 99% of all 74s I have seen were polished, unless the later black plastic or the occasional five slat black.

 

[Markos]

 

[HB Chris]

I can’t tell what any of those are. My 2/75 Bav brochures all show the four slat kidney though.

 

[Markos]

I can’t tell what any of those are. My 2/75 Bav brochures all show the four slat kidney though.

The 3.0 CS has a five bar, and the 3.0 SI has a four bar. I’m not counting bars, I’m basing off of the grille frame.

I have already produced numerous factory images of the ‘74 E9 with a five bar (10 slat) kidney. It is much more difficult to find a brochure of a ‘74 e9 with a four bar (8 slat) kidney. Can anyone produce a brochure with a ‘74 E9 sporting a four bar (8 slat) kidney? If so that will help to foster the mystery.

Here is the original in-depth discussion on the subject.To @keshav’s point, I think we may have overlooked the observation that BMW may not show any evidence of the four bar grille on the ‘74 e9.

1974 / 1975 Kidney Grille Options

Edit: This was a listing for a two-car package in Miami, but there is more value in the 1974 grille discussion. Old: https://miami.craigslist.org/brw/cto/5853284875.html

e9coupe.com

The Crevier e9 is very late in the production run, and has a five bar grille. Give that the car has <5K miles on it, I think it is a good indication that @Keshav may be on the right track.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/exceeding-low-expectations-1974-bmw-3-0-cs

 

[HB Chris]

Don’t think there any 74 e9 brochures. I accept the fact the four bar may have been introduced at the very end, I’ve seen quite a few though. I’m surprised there are any five slat black on any US e9 that came on the car. The Dec 74 that I sold for a friend was polished.

 

[Markos]

Don’t think there any 74 e9 brochures. I accept the fact the four bar may have been introduced at the very end, I’ve seen quite a few though. I’m surprised there are any five slat black on any US e9 that came on the car. The Dec 74 that I sold for a friend was polished.

There certainly are tons of ‘74 E9’s running around with the four bar grille.

 

[Christopher]

My '74 car in the July '75 Custom Car magazine.

With a blonde on the roof to make it look even sexier ...

 

[Keshav]

Great

My '74 car in the July '75 Custom Car magazine.

With a blonde on the roof to make it look even sexier ...

Great example Christopher, ofcourse I mean the 5 black slat grill and not the blonde
Luckily she’s not sitting on a Csl......she would have sunk in some!

 

[Markos]

Dead on pic of the five bar grille at the 1974 Geneva Motor Show. Warning, this is a car show in the 70's!

Did you spot the back windshield wiper? Also note the white vinyl roofs and US mirror placement.

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