Looking for a Bat

loach

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Hi.

First post from a long-term lurker. I'm in the throes of selling a Z8 - a car that I've owned from new and have put very little mileage on (4,000 miles) - and it's a reluctant sale. As you can deduce from the mileage, I'm just not using it enough and I feel guilty sitting in it, let alone driving it.

To get me over the depression that will inevitable ensue when I part with the Z8 - probably the last decent manual-gearbox equipped relatively uncomplicated ubercar BMW will ever make - I want to get a LHD Bat. I picked up a 3,000 mile original M535i before Christmas, and an older BMW is definitely the way I want to go in terms of replacing the Z8. The M is terriffic to drive and in driving experience, feels more like 15 years old than 30. A Bat would complement it nicely. Plus, I can't quite stretch to an M1 right now.

Photos were floating around in here of a Fjord blue car that was photographed at a show in Germany, and I believe this might be available though I'm not totally sold on Fjord Blue for a Batmobile. It's kinda girly. Via a trader, the asking price is in the region of 120k EUR. It may be less if I could find the seller directly. There is a silver car that is for sale in Germany also, but it was bought at auction by a guy that I sort of know, and to put it frankly, I don't want to deal with him. He's a wealthy guy with no clue but plenty of greed and his car collection is of a generally poor quality that totally belies his asking prices. I think he picked up this silver car for 90k EUR(ish) and is looking for 120K+EUR now, mere weeks later.

There is a green Gen 2 Bat that was for sale in Holland 2 years or so ago, and I might (definitely not confirmed) be able to get my hands on it. For the moment, it's the most interesting car for me, as I love the colour, and have driven the car. It looks slightly shabby but drives extremely well and might respond well to some TLC. I don't know what I should offer for the car.

The white Bat 1 in Canada looks optimistically priced to me, on the basis of it seeming less than perfect in the photos - in my opinion anyway. I haven't seen that car in the flesh. It's the right colour, though. A white Bat would be my ideal.

Anyone got any tips or advice on what I should be paying for a Gen 1 or Gen 2 Bat? Anyone know of anything nice available that could be bought for acceptable money? Anyone know anything of the history of the Dutch green car?

Thanks in advance for any help here. I'll be waiting anxiously for any response. Sorry for the rambling post.
 

DJSimca

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Oh boy ... this may well end up in one of these (endless) discussions about the true value/worth of a CSL and/or Bat !! :-(

You haven't mentioned your budget only thrown about random numbers but if your budget is indeed around 100.000 eur I would most definitely go for an M1.

Don't want to start a pissing contest - I love the Bat as much as the next guy, but I still think the M1 is a completely different ball game than a Bat.

Knowing first hand from a guy who bought an M1 recently, they may be offered for sale at 140 keur but they don't change hands for much more than 100k!!

Just a thought.

PS. I thought the Dutch car sold back then ?? Careful anyway, from what I am told Taiga was not its original colour!
 

loach

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Great - nothing like starting an entertaining debate, though it sounds like you guys have been there and done this CSL value thing often enough not to want it dredged up again. Noobs can be annoying like that. :)

On spend - I'm thinking 80-120k EUR depending on provenance and condition. I guess I could run some numbers past Mobile Tradition to check on that Taiga car, but any steers from you guys would be very helpful. It has been very poorly painted, so I don't mind the colour not being original provided the original colour was nice. I'll have to repaint it at some point anyway.

On M1s, I just don't know that my budget will accommodate a good one, but if you guys know something that I don't, then please feel free to let me know. I just don't want (and can't) spend more than 120k EUR right now, and think an M1 in really good condition might not be an option. Perhaps a blue one with 60k miles or something would slip in there at 100-120k, but a nice orange or white one? I don't know. Maybe, but I don't know where such a car is.
 

loach

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Based in Ireland. I'm familiar with the mobile.de cars and am a long serving Pistonheads contributor in the forums. On the CSLs in mobile...Willy Jungblut is a pal, and 'his' car is provisionally sold. The 2 Swedish cars may well be worth some consideration and I have been on looking for decent photos. The white one in particular is priced to leave room for restoration provided the car is a sound Bat. The Gassman car is a no-no as discussed, and there's one guy looking for 100k EUR for a non-bat csl, which makes no sense to me personally for that particular car.

I guess I just want to make sure that I know about any cars out there that may be available. There's nothing worse than gearing up to buy something, spending a ton of cash, and then hearing post-purchase 'did you not know about this one...' or 'you were robbed...you should have called me i have a better one I'd have sold' and so on. I've a reasonable budget to get this done, and really want to get it right if I can.

On the M1s - that M1 you linked has been for sale for well over a year. It does look OK, and they may be open to offers, but you never know with M1s. I've been to see a few and close examination reveals that there are a few dogs out there. The guy with the opportunistically priced 125k silver Bat tried to shift his one for a year, and it was a bit of a pig though it looked nice in photos. Wrong interior, wrong colour, wrong trim etc etc. Good ones are hard to find and many of the resto jobs I've seen are below par - a lot of owners couldn't resist 'customising', and I'm a bit purist with the M1 as it's my all-time favourite car. I wouldn't mind if someone tinkered with the mechanics of an M1 in a productive and sensible way, but instead it seems to be bodykits, bad paint and all-leather interiors. Booo.
 

CSL 1973

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Swedish one-owner Bat for 97 000 euro

Without being involved in this car, I think it might be worth to consider the "one-owner-since-new" Polaris Silver Bat in Sweden. It's the first (and private) owner who sells the car and it is a genuine Bat in strict original condition including FSH, service booklets etc. Actually the owner picked-it up directly by the factory in Munich in 1974.

The car is located not so far away from Stockholm airport (Arlanda). Asked price is 97 000 euro:

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=price.consumerGrossEuro&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=3500&makeModelVariant1.modelId=1&makeModelVariant1.modelDescription=CSL&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&siteId=GERMANY&negativeFeatures=EXPORT&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=NO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&lang=de&id=131462819&pageNumber=1

Cheers
 

loach

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Without being involved in this car, I think it might be worth to consider the "one-owner-since-new" Polaris Silver Bat in Sweden. It's the first (and private) owner who sells the car and it is a genuine Bat in strict original condition including FSH, service booklets etc. Actually the owner picked-it up directly by the factory in Munich in 1974.

The car is located not so far away from Stockholm airport (Arlanda). Asked price is 97 000 euro:


Cheers
Thanks, matey. I spoke to the Swedish owner of the white car, and he seems like a nice guy, which is always a big plus. If his car looks worth going to see, then I would definitely check out that silver one whilst in Sweden.

Anyone know specifically about the white Swedish car at all?
 

CSL 1973

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The Chamonix Bat in the North of Sweden (Umeå) is a very late Bat from the first Bat serie of 439 cars (third last car). I think it has been respayed some time ago but I don't know if it was fully or partly renovated. Due to the public info from the Swedish car registry, it has had 14 owners. First registration date was 7th of March 1975 and it has not been registered for the road since 1990. However, the car passed the Controle Technique/TüV/MOT in 2009.

It looks very nice and has an attractive price tag. Not original CSL steering wheel, rims, front spoiler and rear spoiler stripes etc. Furthermore, the Scheel seats are not correct with it's "full leather version" etc. But if it stays with this, it's just easily fixed details.

Interesting car with a late VIN, several pre-owners and a very reasonable price (75 000 euro).

Cheers
 

loach

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If it's only one of the first 429 then it didn't come with the aerokit or 3.2 and isn't really a Bat, though, right? In which cas it's a damned expensive 3.0 CSL fr one in marginal condition. A minter would be 100k or less. I'll see when I get the chassis number and pics. On the incorrect details you mentioned, I guess they will come under the remit of the inevitable 'to do' list. I wonder if there is a decent history to go with the 14 owners. That's a LOT of hands through which the car has passed, even at 35 years old.
 

loach

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Just found out that the white Swedish car is 2275536, so it's one of the last of the S1 Bats, then. Third to last of the 110 rather than third to last of the 167. Unusual to have had it first registered in 1975, but I guess that discrepancy can be explained with some additional digging.
 

CSL 1973

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You are perfectly correct. It is a genuine Bat and the third last of the first batch with 110 bats. My mistake (I will blame it on the current heatwave...). Sorry for that.

Actually, it's the last CSL ever sold new in Sweden. I think it has been owned by the same family for several years and maybe it has been registered to different family member during the years and that could have triggered some of the "new owners" in the Swedish registry.

Cheers
 

loach

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Seems so. I'll keep you posted as I go along.

Quick question - all things being equal (in this instance, let's imagine two cars equally in need of a bit of TLC and in only decent, presentable condition rather than concours), is there a premium to be paid for one of the last 57 as opposed to one of the 110 that preceded it?

In my head, I veer towards the later 57 cars, but does the market make any distinction? Being a Doctor, and therefore a complete muppet (if you can't sell it wait for a Doctor... how very true that is), I can't decide if it's just me.

Also, and I'm sure this has been done to death on here, did anyone ever get to the bottom of sourcing correct, rubberised, wing end-plates? I recall that there used to be an issue with this, and I'm already anticipating having to go for a car that will need this sort of thing dealt with.
 

CSL 1973

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As regards the Swedish bat 2275536, there are some interesting details to add. If I remember correctly this car was originally Polaris silver, then resprayed black and finally resprayed again to Chamonix white. As long as the work has been properly done, it could be alright.

Another detail is that I have a 15-20 years old picture of the car and there it has a tow-bar! Pretty unusual for a CSL but actually an original E9 option.

As regards premium to pay for the last batch of 57 bats, IMHO yes. Together with the first 169 carb ones, the last 57 ones should, IMHO, always be the most expensive street CSLs.

For the last 57 ones the are several colours to chose between. Most of these cars were, from factory, Polaris and Chamonix but there were also Fjord, Taiga, Golf, Granatrot, Turkis, Inka, Siennabraun and 6 special request (including two black ones) to chose between. Some of them with city-pack, A/C, power mirrors etc. So in other words, a lot of variations and not the most "light ones".

Cheers

I think a well-documented original 4355xxx bat in good condition would be a very sound investment. if the car has a special history, the value goes up every year.
 

loach

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Very helpful post, 1973. Thanks so much for taking the time to give me a hand. Once I heard from Sweden that the car was an S1, I confess that I started to get keener on the Dutch S2 again.. despite its issues. It drives brilliantly, but there is rumour that the colour is non-original, and it's in a slightly tatty state (though by no means terrible - 6 or 6.5/10).

I'm getting a bit confused and befuddled now with chassis numbers, build dates and variants. Does anyone know where Yannick Bernat's page dedicated to his old ex-Stuck CSL disappeared to? I used to be able to find it when I googled 'Legendary E3', but it's gone now. I found his info on the page very good, and he gave a nice write-up on the differences between the S1 and S2 Bats. AFAI recall, it was down to a slightly different pattern in the door leatherette and a black headlining but I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff. Is Yannick still contributing here?

Furthermore, the photos page here isn't great. Anyone have any decent photos of a Taiga green Bat at all?
 

loach

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mpgandco, is that not Yannick Bernat's old car that sold a couple of years ago via Munich Legends for around 90,000 EURO and then sold this year for 138,500 EURO at auction? Always nice to have a link to pics of a lovely CSL, but I'm not sure what it means that you sent me this link.
 

mpgandco

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I thought you asked for the link.Wrong link,sorry.It is Yannick's Old Bat that just sold in France.
 

loach

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Here is the Taiga Bat that sold here in Carmel last August for $150,000.Ok car but some things were not correct.Good luck with your search.

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=USA&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4340542&iSaleNo=17327&iSaleSectionNo=2#
Great link and nice photos. Looks pretty good in the shots. In what way was it only OK? Poor paint quality? $150k including premiums doesn't seem all that bad if it was a good one.
 
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