Low/Rough Idle Question

Hi @nashvillecat - thanks for the input. Confident I did not disturb the distributor alignment/positioning when taking multi meter readings.

Interesting read on the other spark plug thread though. That could possibly be my smoking gun. I am using NGK 7082 BPR5EGP at the moment and were recently swapped in when this whole issue started. I am also now running NGK 54404 plug wires and NGK 48862 coil.

Car used to have standard Bosch plugs, wires and a Jacobs High Performance Coil.

Let me know what you think about my parts replacement choices.

Before I redo all these parts again, I may just try air blasting the idle stops and then some carb cleaner.

Again appreciate help here everyone.
 
I still think that if it idled smoothly before the removal and reinstallation of the air cleaner and the parts changes, and now doesn't idle smoothly, that the change in idle is related to these activities. Is there any chance that the vacuum hose to the dizzy was switched from full manifold vacuum to ported vacuum during the work? Full manifold vacuum will give a higher idle RPM and cleaner burning at idle than ported vacuum.
 
Vacuum has not changed. Never removed the vacuum line at the dizzy going to the front carb.
Only touched the tube attached to the air filter housing to the T, which I now understand is part of the fuel evap system.
 

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So, I'm running the BP5ES plugs in my car, and when I was buying these I was advised not to get the BPR5ES plugs because the "R" in the part number stands for resistance. The resistance plugs were invented to avoid generating noise that was audible in the radio. I don't recall why that I was advised to avoid the "R" plugs, but you may want to ask around about that issue specifically and see if you get the same advice.
 
The challenge is availability of non-resistor plugs. I bought a set on eBay last time, but the availability is going down and price is going up. If you look on the NGK site they only list resistor plugs now.

Also, I am becoming reticent about buying car parts from Amazon and eBay, too many counterfeit parts being sold on those platforms.
 
Are both choke flaps fully open ?.

So, I'm running the BP5ES plugs in my car, and when I was buying these I was advised not to get the BPR5ES plugs because the "R" in the part number stands for resistance. The resistance plugs were invented to avoid generating noise that was audible in the radio. I don't recall why that I was advised to avoid the "R" plugs, but you may want to ask around about that issue specifically and see if you get the same advice.
Couldn't find the BP5ES locally so I opted for the next best alternative, the BPR6ES. Just put them in an hour ago. Will do a cold start after work today and see how we go. Will lyk.
 
The challenge is availability of non-resistor plugs. I bought a set on eBay last time, but the availability is going down and price is going up. If you look on the NGK site they only list resistor plugs now.

Also, I am becoming reticent about buying car parts from Amazon and eBay, too many counterfeit parts being sold on those platforms.
Yes, and if you search for the BP5ES, all the google search results return BPR5ES.
 
The new copper NGK plugs made a significant difference over platinum plugs. Still not perfect bet much better than yesterday. Pretty consistent around 800 to 850 RPM. Still diesels up on shutdown but I think with an idle stop cleaning we'll be back in business. Thanks gents for the troubleshooting support. Will keep y'all posted. Prost
 
The dieseling has been there since I bought the car. Even noted on some documents I found that came with the car dating back to 2006. See attached - this is the from the 2nd owner passing the tribal knowledge down to the 3rd.
 

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Yeah Chris, I'll give that a go. Have not messed with the distributor, rotor, or cap yet.

Shouldn't I just do a proper ignition timing? I have a timing light and digital tach en route just in case I got to this point.
 
Idle seems to he squared away for the moment. Thank you all who gave their inputs, much appreciated. Seems like it was primarily a spark plug issue. Note to self...copper over platinum, iridium, etc.

@HB Chris - turned the dizzy about 1/8 inch clockwise the other day but cant say the dieseling at shutdown went away. It's still sporadic happens most timesbit not all the time.
Should I give it another 1/8 turn or go for the full kit and kaboodle timing treatment?
 
The dieseling has been there since I bought the car. Even noted on some documents I found that came with the car dating back to 2006. See attached - this is the from the 2nd owner passing the tribal knowledge down to the 3rd.
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The second caretaker’s notes indicate that the weber carbs were “recently” rebuilt. This begets many inquiries, including why, or in other words, what issue/s needed correction?

The common Weber 32/26 downdraft carb has a few shortcomings, including throttle shaft wear due to side loading, so that excessive movement can result in intermittent vacuum leaks and (unwanted) fuel mixture changes. This issue is often imperfectly mitigated by slightly enrichening the mixture via the mixture screw/s or larger idle jets and/or main jet changes -- and sometimes, imaginative ignition timing changes. (Repair kits for worn throttle shafts may still be available. This is NOT to say that this is your problem, but excessive shaft movement is worth exploring.)

It is interesting to note that some 32/26 DGV carburetors were deemed to be acceptable for use by the California Air Resources Board. This does not automatically ensure that any compliant Weber achieves the exact same fuel mixture production results as the Zenith carburetor it replaces. Since Webers were not original equipment, there is no one-size-fits-all owners manual blueprint for weber jetting. Many jet sizes may work with M30 engines, but some recipes work better than others, especially with different driving applications in a 50-year-old engine. To a certain degree, the same logic applies to ignition timing. One expects that your Jacobs coil and/or CD ignition system or your Allison ignition could have worked fairly well with your fine wire spark plugs. That said, could those aftermarket ignition upgrades have been intended to correct the very symptoms referenced in your post?

The run on/ dieseling condition probably reached its apogee in the 1970s and 1980's due to manufacturers’ attempts to meet stricter CO and NO emissions standards. Some manufacturers attempted to satisfy reduced emissions (and fuel economy) standards by pushing the limits of workable lean mixtures along with higher engine operating temperatures to the point of compromising engine performance and - creating conditions ripe for run on and/or dieseling. The many available jetting choices for your Weber carburetors (including slightly larger idle jets) arguably provides a workaround for difficult-to-meet mixture concerns while providing improved engine operation.

In theory, if the idle solenoids are working as designed, removing the engine’s fuel source should eliminate run on/dieseling. When this does not work, you might consider whether there are other residual fuel sources. (Worn throttle shafts or other worn or maladjusted carburetor parts, including one or more leaky accelerator pump gaskets, might possibly account for some of this. Could this be a reason for the “recent” rebuilds?) At the same time, consider eliminating any residual ignition source induced by excessive pressure or temperatures. If your engine has higher than normal compression, or an aftermarket camshaft - or hot spots caused by combustion chambers loaded with unburnt carbon deposits, you might consider resorting to: larger idle jets, lower idle speed, reduced engine operating temperatures, colder range spark plugs, thicker base gaskets or remapped/retarded ignition timing. Another imperfect “fix” might be using higher octane (less volatile) fuel.



For illustration purposes only. No recommendation for specific jet applications.



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When I was tuning my 38's I had some discussion with Steve Nelson, the owner of Top End Performance. My issue was that raw fuel was being dumped through the venturi's at idle. This was likely a float issues, but I had set the floats several times and the problem persisted. Steve indicated that the float level settings on our carburetors may need to be different from original specifications as a result of the changes to the specific gravity of the fuels we are now using (think about the addition of various additives and fuel blends to meet emission standards).

I did solve my problems through float adjustments. Top End Performance has some very good information on their site re. tuning and adjustment of webers, here. I have also found the videos on weber tuning on this youtube channel to be excellent.
 
I hope you find your solution. It is out there. Much useful information above, and it is great you are sharing what you try as you work through this dieseling. In my own, limited experience, the '90's era Weber 32/36s that I rebuilt, responded well and I am very happy at how they perform now. But I would not proceed with any rebuild if I could not deal with throttle shaft vacuum leak. Fortunate to have the Canadian distributor for Weber here in Vancouver, and I installed these inexpensive bearings that eliminate the vacuum leak in older Webers. Yes, may not be your issue, and only part of the process, but these helped me get to the end of the quest for tuned, synchronized, strong idling and no dieseling, pair of Webers. Good luck and keep us updated! Mike
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