Marketplace golf CSI in mid west

[Thomas76]

Not mine, not affiliated..

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[JMinPDX]

$75k RNM on BaT last month.

Golf Yellow CSi on BAT - NMNA

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-bmw-3-0csi-11/

e9coupe.com

Begs the question, where to turn, in the short term, after your car fails to sell on BaT?

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

$75k RNM on BaT last month.

Begs the question, where to turn, in the short term, after your car fails to sell on BaT?

My answer would be "There really isn't anyplace that will work after an RNM on BaT".

Most likely, anybody interested in a car like an E9 (maybe most any collector car?) will have seen the BaT listing either during the auction or while they are doing research after they spot the car for sale on another venue. BaT is the "gold standard". The price a car bids to on BaT is what the market thinks the car is worth. You really can't advertise it on another venue at a higher price and expect that potential buyers haven't seen the RNM amount on BaT.

IMO, you have one shot at selling if you list a car on BaT. If it doesn't meet reserve and sell, plan on keeping the car for a long time. Maybe one of the downsides of BaT?

 

[sfdon]

No different than listing a house on the market for too high a price. Not only does it not sell, even worse all the brokers know to avoid showing it to clients. Word gets out fast- overpriced, unreasonable seller, Avoid…
And it sits and sits..

 

[Luis A.]

Counterpoint: I've listed 2 cars on BAT, both RNM and both sold to an underbidder for appreciably more than the RNM.

Not every potential buyer is consulting BAT every day. Seven days to me has always seemed brief for what can be considered a 'specialty' car.

 

[Thomas76]

My answer would be "There really isn't anyplace that will work after an RNM on BaT".

Most likely, anybody interested in a car like an E9 (maybe most any collector car?) will have seen the BaT listing either during the auction or while they are doing research after they spot the car for sale on another venue. BaT is the "gold standard". The price a car bids to on BaT is what the market thinks the car is worth. You really can't advertise it on another venue at a higher price and expect that potential buyers haven't seen the RNM amount on BaT.

IMO, you have one shot at selling if you list a car on BaT. If it doesn't meet reserve and sell, plan on keeping the car for a long time. Maybe one of the downsides of BaT?

I think so too, we can probably all agree it's NOT Marketplace.

 

[rsporsche]

unfortunately its the same photos that make it look like the wrong color. i had hopes that the seller was going to fix some of the little things and work to sell it next year. i think i would try Hemmings or Hagerty before FB ... but that's my opinion.

 

[ablank135]

Just because it's close by and I'm curious, I'm going to run over and see the car at Josh's shop on Monday. I'll report back and post some photos. If anyone has specific requests for me to look at, let me know. He also still has "listed" on FB Marketplace a 1971 Polaris CSi:

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The reality is that he's a young guy with a YouTube channel on BMWs, and enough resources and desire to bring these older cars across the Atlantic. Whether he can source and then sell them consistently is a really good question. Especially in a market that's gone soft. He did message me that the FB Marketplace listing is a longshot...I suspect he's found himself in an odd corner now, post-BaT.

 

[sfdon]

I sold a Aston Martin this year on BAT
RNM
With the grace of BAT, it sold for exactly the reserve, less the commission

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

I sold a Aston Martin this year on BAT
RNM
With the grace of BAT, it sold for exactly the reserve, less the commission

That happened with one of the cars I sold on BaT also.

Very smart of BaT. If the reserve is lower than the final high bid plus the buyers commission, BaT makes up the difference between the bid and reserve out of the commission. BaT gets to report a sale rather than RNM and makes money (some is better than non). The seller gets his number. The buyer gets the car for his bid. Everybody is happy.

 

[sfdon]

And BAT does asks -“please keep us in mind for a donation if you are able to make a deal with the high bidder”

 

[BarneyT]

That happened with one of the cars I sold on BaT also.

Very smart of BaT. If the reserve is lower than the final high bid plus the buyers commission, BaT makes up the difference between the bid and reserve out of the commission. BaT gets to report a sale rather than RNM and makes money (some is better than non). The seller gets his number. The buyer gets the car for his bid. Everybody is happy.

My experience with BAT, was good and bad… they were total pain on the verbiage in the ad, no real feedback as to when the add was going to start/be listed. I would say that rather than reflecting the market overall, it reflects the market that day… I believe the quality cars still bring quality money…

Two years ago I sold a 72 bmw 2002tii on BAT, watching the sell it was at 68k short of my reserve of 70k and all of a sudden it flashes SOLD…My phone rings and it’s the BAT rep. He tells me BAT is kicking in 2k to make the sell… the fellow that purchased my car had picked up almost $1 million worth of vehicles on bring a trailer in the last two months before my sell, so they stepped up to the plate, to make it happen for him…

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

BaT would do exactly the same for any deal in the same situation. At $68k the buyers fee is $3400 (5% of $68k). BaT chips in $2k of that to make reserve. The seller makes his reserve and the car sells. The buyer gets the car for their bid. BaT makes $1400. Why would they not do that for any deal in the same situation.

 

[ablank135]

That happened with one of the cars I sold on BaT also.

Very smart of BaT. If the reserve is lower than the final high bid plus the buyers commission, BaT makes up the difference between the bid and reserve out of the commission. BaT gets to report a sale rather than RNM and makes money (some is better than non). The seller gets his number. The buyer gets the car for his bid. Everybody is happy.

...and for BaT, not just to make money on the sale, but to maintain its batting average and reputation. This is probably a repost from somewhere, but if you really want to nerd out with this guy, here is his Python-enabled analysis of BaT sell-through rates. I'd love to see him re-run this with 2023 RNM/Sold data, because I'd guess the batting average is lower.

 

[sfdon]

A few months ago I calculated 30% RNM.

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

A few months ago I calculated 30% RNM.

I don't have any data, but in addition, I believe the percent of cars listed with no reserve is up.

 

[JBMW]

My answer would be "There really isn't anyplace that will work after an RNM on BaT".

Most likely, anybody interested in a car like an E9 (maybe most any collector car?) will have seen the BaT listing either during the auction or while they are doing research after they spot the car for sale on another venue. BaT is the "gold standard". The price a car bids to on BaT is what the market thinks the car is worth. You really can't advertise it on another venue at a higher price and expect that potential buyers haven't seen the RNM amount on BaT.

IMO, you have one shot at selling if you list a car on BaT. If it doesn't meet reserve and sell, plan on keeping the car for a long time. Maybe one of the downsides of BaT?

While I agree BaT is THE place to be when buying/selling collector cars, it also can leave a car hammering down at drastically different prices depending on day of week, time, who's online, who's on vacation, who got a Christmas bonus, etc etc. I sold an E30 convertible on there 2x the market value because guess who was in the room that day, an NBA player who somehow decided he wanted an E30 convertible that day. It can vary so much, the Golf closed the day before thanksgiving, while in a visible soft market across all brands, all models, all grade cars. An RNM doesn't necessarily dictate a cars value, it can, generally it gives us an idea, but on a 7 day auction site it simply can't. Ive seen cars hammer at complete bargains, and I've seen cars hammer at 5x their market value. Thats the fun part of an auction! But you can't forget that it takes a buyer AND a seller to dictate the market. Where they meet is the market. If a car sold at x dollars 2 months ago and was listed at 2x that today, yes that would scare people away, but I don't think the general public seeing a RNM on auction and then seeing it listed higher elsewhere means anything, It simply means the seller wasn't letting it go at that price, if you want it you have to meet them. Lots of deals close on Bat post RNM, and that requires them to offer above the hammer price. Its not necessarily a car you can simply drive over to another dealership and look at the same one. This is the sole Golf CSI available in the US and maybe even world market right now, so buyers that want it will meet me.
I do however recognize marketplace doesn't have those buyers, but its a slow winter here, Ill sit and market it for free and dabble with it when I have the time. I like looking at it in the meantime

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

All you say is true. Lots of variables, lots of exceptions.

The winter may not be the best time to sell a collector car, but I've had some luck in January and February. It's a new year, the days are getting longer, car guys start thinking of spring and cars.

I suggest eBay and/or Hemmings Auction.

I sold several cars on eBay before BaT came into its own. I list as an auction without a BIN price (a BIN will scare off some buyers who would have ended up bidding the same number in an auction) with a reserve that is the lowest number I can live with...not the number I "want". I run for 7 days (10 is optional) thinking I will get more "auction fever" in a short auction than a longer one. Lots of pictures, linked or embedded video, a complete description, show and tell all the warts...it's the right thing to do and I felt it gave me more cred as a seller. The listing should be clean and complete but avoid looking like a dealer. It helps if you can write some HTML. The worst thing that can happen is that it bids short of the reserve but gives you another data point as to value. The best thing is that it at least makes reserve and maybe goes nuts over the reserve.

I have not used Hemmings, but I believe they are #2 in online auctions. Very similar to BaT. Again, worst case another data point. Best case it sells for your price.

I have also had luck getting the car for sale out and about at car shows. It's easier for a potential buyer to get excited being with the car and owner than on a computer monitor or smart phone. Someone who never thought they wanted an E9 can easily fall in love with yours in person. The bigger the show the better but most of those aren't for a while and may involve transport expense for you.

In any case, good luck with the sale!

 

[ablank135]

Just to bring this thread around to the original topic, I ran out to Josh's shop yesterday, primarily to look at the Golf CSi. He has three other Coupes there as well. Over two hours of chatting, he was kind enough to let me take some shots and share them back with the forum along with my impressions of the Golf unit. Honestly, it's nearly impossible to judge the color without another Golf car nearby for reference. Fluorescent overhead lights don't help in judging the color, either, but I can say it's not nearly as canary/chrome yellow as the BaT listing photos made it appear. Getting it alongside Luis's in the spring would be instructive. Color aside, the thickness of the paint is what jumps out at me. Panel edges and corners don't look crisp, and the overall impression is sort of a glazed cake effect--the clear coat almost looks lightly poured-over rather than sprayed. The paint around the VIN area on the firewall (pic 454) sits considerably higher than the metal--it must have been masked or cut out. Josh doesn't know the restoration history, and I didn't have a paint meter around, but the car has definitely had a heavy respray.

Josh is primarily an E34 guy with no shortage of enthusiasm for all things BMW. He's an engineer by education, and now a YouTuber with a following that apparently includes the BMW mothership. I guess if you're asking where the next generation of vintage BMW enthusiasts will come from, they'll look a lot like Josh. But he's still learning E9s. And the market. He's worked out an arrangement with Wolf-Rudiger von Massow, the owner of the resto-dealer Scuderia Sportiva in the Cologne area, to acquire coupes in Germany and sell in the US market. He has two Polaris coupes (one under repair and not for sale) and a Baikal unit with a 3.6L S38 engine that was reportedly owned/modified by BMW Motorsport itself. That one is rather astonishing to see. It's still listed on the Scuderia site. I think Josh made some assumptions about the marketability of E9s that may not exist right now, and the BaT listing was his first hard lesson.

 

[JBMW]

@Dick Steinkamp Thanks for the tips! I haven't really thought to use ebay but I might just give it a shot. I got the car out to a CCA meet in the fall and the response to it in person was awesome. Definitely stole the show. Unfortunately those sorts of events won't be happening here in the midwest for some months.

@ablank135 Andy, it was a pleasure to have you to the shop. I know I have the tendency for talking too much so I apologize if I kept you too long! haha. Anyway thanks for the words, and thanks for sharing with the group. I appreciate that I am no longer a total mystery member.

As Andy has shown in pictures I have a few cool cars hanging around, I am happy to have anyone out to my shop should you be in the Chicagoland area. Just give me a shout! Though the shop is no longer as tidy as yesterday now that I have dug into my E31 M60B44 project