Motor swaps

we generally feel great!
A lot of us have done it, usually to an M30B35
Many go from carbs to fuel injection.
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ALSO there are the purists who will keep their car as bone-stock as possible.
 
Stan's reply presumes you are talking about swapping a larger displacement, 70's-80's era, BMW inline 6. That is about as close to a bolt-in as an engine swap can be and is generally endorsed by this forum.

But if you are proposing a small block Chevy or some other non-BMW engine as the organ donor, you won't get the same warm reception.
 
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I'd be curious of more turbo M30 swaps. Haven't seen too many of those.

Yes, I'll want a M30B35 someday with an old school CSI/E12 intake setup and stay w/EFI.
 
Stevehose said:
Time will tell as more traditional collectors look at e9's as investments. Hold onto your original engine if possible.
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Agreed though I think the values will reflect what has happened in the early 911 world. Original will achieve top tier values; but a proper build with a spicy engine and gearbox upgrade will also achieve nearly nearly as high of values.
 
may be this point is afected by earth longitude ?;)
generally is, may be, too general
back to the origin of the question, feel about swaps ? i would like to consider,...what is the purpose of a swap ?
opinions, everyone has an opinion, every opinion is valid and sound, the question is what for ?
investment ? well, that might include matching numbers, thus a solid survivor head with "bean" shaped water passages dated 68/75 might be there, hummm, not that easy
racing ? fun ? ...others ? pride ? joy ?
availability of responsible mechanic shop ? good spares ?,...
there is a guy that have installed electric motor and lots of batteries in an e9, probably concerned by climate change ?
who knows ?
 
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OCCoupe said:
Agreed though I think the values will reflect what has happened in the early 911 world. Original will achieve top tier values; but a proper build with a spicy engine and gearbox upgrade will also achieve nearly as high of values.
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I agree with Steve and Mike. If you have a matching number motor, do not get rid of it whatever you do. Just store the original numbers matching motor, then do what you want to your car. If that is what you have. But I have said this many times, I think in the not too distant future, maybe a couple years even, the more original, the more valuable (Not the same as Hagerty suggests). Anyone can make a hot rod (and I'm not taking anything away from people that do that, there are beautiful ones out there, most of your cars have beautiful 3.5L motors, injection instead of carbs etc). But one can't make original paint (no re-spray over the years), low mile, no rust (Close to no rust, let's be realistic), straight, numbers matching coupes (or E3's he he). You simply can't do it. They have to come that way and there are very few left in the world that meet that description. It's not everyone's cup of tea but that doesn't matter because logic would tell you they should be worth more then standard swaps (Not talking factory Alpina's etc), since they cannot be duplicated that way. Whether the BMW crowd will care that much, time will tell. The older they get, the more I think that will matter...... I will say this too, from somebody that is trying to preserve as much originality as possible with a couple tweaks of my own, but "bolt on off" stuff (always saving the original part); it is getting harder and harder to find someone that really knows the Zeniths (And thank you to all of you that have helped along the way; it's a team effort). I think that was the original motivation for a lot of people to go with Weber's or injection. Then the thinking was; might as well get a bigger displacement motor while your at it, especially if your motor is not matching. But even the local mechanics around SoCal will tell you that tuning the Zeniths are tricky (And not just because they want more money, I truly believe there is an art to tuning them). But once tuned right they are faster than the Dual Weber's. Maybe not triple side-drafts, but if you can keep it stock, be faster, and have the great carb sound, that is a win/win/win in my book. I finally, just yesterday had the master himself (name to be withheld for privacy) get his hands on them and man, what a difference, they are screaming now. And that M30 sound with the dual Zenith carbs, when they are humming just right, there is no better feeling or sound in the world. Other then when on straight pipe race cars. But they still sound amazing with a stock muffler. I had the biggest smile on my face yesterday, hit 100+ smoothly and easily with stock 4-speed on the drive home. I don't need anything more than that at this point. But there are only a handful of people I think in the states that have that talent. It's a dying art unfortunately (in my opinion). And if I ever lose a contact like that, then I may have to make a tough decision, and go another route. Or try over the next 20 years to learn the art of tuning Zeniths, but realistically that probably won't happen. So I understand why people go to the injection, different motor, Weber's etc, but sometimes taking the hard road can be more rewarding. Good luck in whatever direction you go, keep us posted.
 
I think if you had a CSI or a CSL, you'd want to keep it original w/the original motor.

But for 2800s and 3.0s, keep the block and head, but there's no replacement for displacement. Bigger is better in this case and a 3.5, w/the moderm 1.3 Motronic injection, makes the car more reliable and enjoyable. Even better if you build the 3.5 w/higher compression pistons, some head work, headers, etc.

But most people just swap the already-running motor in for economical reasons.
 
GolfBavaria said:
but sometimes taking the hard road can be more rewarding.
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Been there and done that, don't need to keep doing it again. Quoting Einstein's definition of insanity: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". That is how I feel about carburetors. I had 38/38s on my 3.5, I worked and worked to get them tuned and finally got them to a point that they were actually civil but it was only a matter of time though before they were going to act up again. Old carbs need a lot of attention and sometimes the fix is beyond a rebuild.

Building a proper fuel injected motor is not what I would call the easy road. I would however call it the path to sanity. Very few of us have original motors, fewer have original motors with original heads. If this were the case with my coupe then I would take the motor, buy all the essential parts (that could go NLA) and mothball the motor and parts so that I could save it for the next owner, if I ever decide to sell. Then I would build my ideal m30 then have a great time driving my coupe. I hope to be at that point by mid next year.

There's something to be said about getting in the car, turning the key, and having all 6 cylinders come to life without having to fuss with chokes, or flooding, or the other issues that come with having old tired carbs. Just fire her up and go baby go!!!
 
It took me about 8 months to get my triples to work to my satisfaction and I am not going to say it wasn't frustrating (and costly) at times (seeking perfection in a raw analog fuel delivery device over variable conditions will cause heartache). But I finally got acceptable afr's over all conditions (idle, cruise, WOT), the car starts on the first crank in any temperature (chokes are blanked off), freezing cold or after a long drive with no vapor lock, no leaks or smells (rubber top gaskets), and sounds glorious along with a little extra torque as it screams to the redline. They also look very cool with their period plumbing (at least to me) and require no further tweaking other than checking the synch a couple times a year but that is fun for me.

I also found that a very healthy ignition system is key - a lot of carb problems get blamed on ignition as the old cliche' goes.

I guess the bottom line is patience, and I can understand why injection is appealing to many especially if you are paying to have someone dink around with carbs who may or may not know what they're doing. But come drive my triples and maybe you'll think I am not so crazy afterall :-)


OCCoupe said:
Been there and done that, don't need to keep doing it again. Quoting Einstein's definition of insanity: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". That is how I feel about carburetors. I had 38/38s on my 3.5, I worked and worked to get them tuned and finally got them to a point that they were actually civil but it was only a matter of time though before they were going to act up again. Old carbs need a lot of attention and sometimes the fix is beyond a rebuild.

Building a proper fuel injected motor is not what I would call the easy road. I would however call it the path to sanity. Very few of us have original motors, fewer have original motors with original heads. If this were the case with my coupe then I would take the motor, buy all the essential parts (that could go NLA) and mothball the motor and parts so that I could save it for the next owner, if I ever decide to sell. Then I would build my ideal m30 then have a great time driving my coupe. I hope to be at that point by mid next year.

There's something to be said about getting in the car, turning the key, and having all 6 cylinders come to life without having to fuss with chokes, or flooding, or the other issues that come with having old tired carbs. Just fire her up and go baby go!!!
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Steve and Mike......both well said...however......

"The Beatings Will Continue Until the Carbs Improve!" LOL...

I think that will be my new T-shirt!
 
Well guys, the discussion seems to illustrate that we have a lot of good options! The original CS carbed cars seem to be rather a high water mark for stock carb performance. Surely that will be appreciated down the road. The original injected CSIs were a fine implementation of a very early electronic system. That to ought to continue to earn plaudits. Then, if one wants to "improve" the car, BMW and Bosch were nice enough to put in almost another two decades refining our M30 engines and injection systems. Not to mention availability of high performance carbs and Megasquirt.

So pick your option - with good attention to detail - and enjoy :-) I don't think you'll go wrong... But each option does require substantial effort. And buying a car already improved with good parts might be the easiest path to fun motoring.

That said I do have a bias towards originality - and I'm sticking with d-jet.
 
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