Hello all, I got big brake system for my Malaga E9 with e46 engine what you guys think any other upgrade I should do to work better with this brake system properly, I need professional opinion I don't know much about the car I am a construction guy.
My Wilwood big brake
- Thread starter Candia4441
- Start date
Nice and shiny!
Well, good tires would be a complement to that brake system...and a modern retractor based seat belts
.
Well, good tires would be a complement to that brake system...and a modern retractor based seat belts
.
Also the correct master cylinder.
Hello, and thank you, I am using the small booster the one it is on 2002tii you can fined it was no room for bigger booster the engine is E46 and original Master cylinder, please tell me what is the correct master cylinder. and thank you
Here is my suggestion:
(1) of the Wilwood kit was specifically designed for the E9, you should be ok with the stock MC. The smaller vac booster will provide less assist so your pedal may feel slightly firmer bit require a little more pressure to operate. Brake feel preference can be very subjective.
After you drive the car you will know of you are happy with it or not. If “not,” you can resize the MC piston diameter (and pedal linkage pivot point) to increase/reduce pedal effort till you are happy with the trade off between effort and pedal travel.
(2) if the Wilwood kit is something not specific to the E9, then I suggest you do some simple calculations to check your caliper piston area compared to the MC piston area to see if you changed either the hydraulic leverage (assuming you kept the stock E9 pedal assembly). You have to also include changes in the disc diameter and effective disc radius to see if you changed the mechanical leverage. If there is a big change in overall brake leverage (>30%), you may want to resize the MC. However, what may be more important… any time you make a big change in the front brakes, you may upset the front/rear brake balance. If this happens, you may need an adjustable brake bias adjuster setup to re-balance the front/rear balance.
Read this link for some basics on brake system design (all-pages) Brake upgrades
Example: on my Alfa race car, I changed the rear brake cylinder diameters. This changed the front/rear hydraulic leverage values and increased the rear bias of the system. I had to compensate by changing my rear brake pressure proportioning valve setting. Without this, the car would be more likely to spin at max braking. With proper adjustment, the car’s balance was maintained.
Does any of this matter to you? It depends on how sensitive you are to how your car turns under braking and how often you expect to get close to the max threshold of braking. If you are like 97% of the people who install BB’s, you aren’t/don’t so it doesn’t matter. If you are in the other 3%, you will appreciate optimizing your system design for your new front brakes.
John
PS: I continue to believe the stock front ventilated brakes are fine for even high powered E9’s. I think you would have to go to pretty wider and super sticky tires before the stock system became unable to apply enough force to overcome available tire grip..
PPS: for non-racing situations, if you have brake overheating problems, some simple air ducting and different pad compounds are usually sufficient to solve the problem.
PPPS: for track days (HPDE), my opinion is novices in fast cars use too much brake and throttle to overcome to little driving skill. That’s why the instructors emphasize smoothness so much. If you are a good driver and still exceed the thermal capabilities of your brakes … then it’s time to upgrade.
(1) of the Wilwood kit was specifically designed for the E9, you should be ok with the stock MC. The smaller vac booster will provide less assist so your pedal may feel slightly firmer bit require a little more pressure to operate. Brake feel preference can be very subjective.
After you drive the car you will know of you are happy with it or not. If “not,” you can resize the MC piston diameter (and pedal linkage pivot point) to increase/reduce pedal effort till you are happy with the trade off between effort and pedal travel.
(2) if the Wilwood kit is something not specific to the E9, then I suggest you do some simple calculations to check your caliper piston area compared to the MC piston area to see if you changed either the hydraulic leverage (assuming you kept the stock E9 pedal assembly). You have to also include changes in the disc diameter and effective disc radius to see if you changed the mechanical leverage. If there is a big change in overall brake leverage (>30%), you may want to resize the MC. However, what may be more important… any time you make a big change in the front brakes, you may upset the front/rear brake balance. If this happens, you may need an adjustable brake bias adjuster setup to re-balance the front/rear balance.
Read this link for some basics on brake system design (all-pages) Brake upgrades
Example: on my Alfa race car, I changed the rear brake cylinder diameters. This changed the front/rear hydraulic leverage values and increased the rear bias of the system. I had to compensate by changing my rear brake pressure proportioning valve setting. Without this, the car would be more likely to spin at max braking. With proper adjustment, the car’s balance was maintained.
Does any of this matter to you? It depends on how sensitive you are to how your car turns under braking and how often you expect to get close to the max threshold of braking. If you are like 97% of the people who install BB’s, you aren’t/don’t so it doesn’t matter. If you are in the other 3%, you will appreciate optimizing your system design for your new front brakes.
John
PS: I continue to believe the stock front ventilated brakes are fine for even high powered E9’s. I think you would have to go to pretty wider and super sticky tires before the stock system became unable to apply enough force to overcome available tire grip..
PPS: for non-racing situations, if you have brake overheating problems, some simple air ducting and different pad compounds are usually sufficient to solve the problem.
PPPS: for track days (HPDE), my opinion is novices in fast cars use too much brake and throttle to overcome to little driving skill. That’s why the instructors emphasize smoothness so much. If you are a good driver and still exceed the thermal capabilities of your brakes … then it’s time to upgrade.
Hello, It is very nice of you that you spend all this time to explain me I do not know how to thank you for all of this, However the Wilwood big brake system it is the name from Ireland Engineering where I got the system from, it was quiet of challenge to install, it wasn't that easy but it is worth it to spend the time and money, I am not a mechanic but I know if we increase the engine power then we have to upgrade the brake system to have better stopping power that's why I got this system.
You asked about sizing your MC. Perhaps it would be better if you call Ireland And ask them for advice.
We will just have to agree to disagree about more power requiring more braking capability.
We will just have to agree to disagree about more power requiring more braking capability.
I intuitively agree with the above. Braking power would be a function of car weight and max driving speed regardless of how one arrives at that speed (ie power). It is possibly a function of duty cycle (what percentage of the time one is in braking mode, probably for thermal aspects).
The good news is that if it works as installed, you can see if the MC is up to the task by testing how well it brakes at speed. If you are unhappy and there is no room for a larger MC, there is the E24 accumulator system (aka the bomb) instead of a MC.
Pretty sure this is the right MC to get w/the Wilwood big brake kit:
BTW, what all did you have to do to get it to fit? I bought this kit used and haven't installed it yet.
BMW Brake Master Cylinder - ATE 34311150229
BMW Brake Master Cylinder - ATE 34311150229
www.fcpeuro.com
BTW, what all did you have to do to get it to fit? I bought this kit used and haven't installed it yet.
Hello, thank you so much that you share your experience with me.