Mystery number written under left footwell insulation?

J

jjs2800cs

Well-Known Member
Messages
283
Reaction score
99
We are in process of stripping our 1970 2800CS for a total restoration.

Under the left foot well insulation was found this number 8592 E hand written. We are sure this is original. We did a forum search and others who have found numbers in various locations, suggest it might be a Karmann build number of some sort. Could it be the 8592 coupe built by Karmann? Looking at 2800CS production numbers there were over 9000 2800cs made including 2800csa's, 2800csusa"s etc, so if a body number, the number 8592 does seem to follow in that our car is one of the last 2800"s made?

But what would the E mean?

Anyway, does anyone have a clue as to what if anything this means? The stripping process is ongoing so we will post any other numbers found.

Some facts- VIN 2205990 Made on 11-24-1970 was Chamonix white now Polaris silver with blue leather interior. Factory electric sunroof, pwr windows, no AC originally but we added from doner car. Was ZF 4 speed now a Getrag 5 speed. Car was originally delivered to BMW dealer "Auto-Ell" in Stuttgart on 11-30-1970. Speedo and heater control are in German, as VIN number we believe translates to a German car that was later imported here. Strangely it has a 3.09 rear end ratio? Maybe for use on the Autobahn!!

Thanks
jjs2800CS

0615212021.jpg
 
I don’t have the answer, but some data to rule a few things out.

My 2800CS was built on July 20th, 1970. VIN’s aren’t always built in order, but generally are. I would hazard a guess that since the range of e9’s were limited to 2800’s in 1970, the VIN’s are more sequential.

So doing the math, my 220 VIN is 1340 earlier than yours. My fender code of 6937 is 1655 earlier than yours. Our build dates are 127 days apart. That is 10.5 VIN’s per day, and 13 wheel well digits per day. As a whole, BMW averaged 14.3 2800CS VIN’s per day in 1970. I’m not sure what this means, but with a sample size of a two, one could infer that the number is somehow related to build sequence, but not build number.

Most people agree that the numbers stamped on the car aren’t platform specific. The numbers written seem to be (as is the case with the model code paper near the rear passenger headrest).
 
Last edited:
Also, BMW didn’t make a 3.09 differential. The 3.07 was offered behind the dogleg transmission in the early euro 635csi (78+). Likely also been in the M535i e12 also, but I haven’t confirmed.
 
3.07 only offered on e24


33101207454​

Exch. final drive​

I=40:13=3,07​

From:04/01/1978 Weight:38.000 kgPrice:$1395.00
Part 33101207454 was found on the following E24 vehicles:
 
There were 8,780 2800CS built through the end of 1970 and 619 in 1971 including all variants so this number makes sense. I wonder if it matches the number stamped under the Karmann plate in the door jamb?
 
HB Chris said:
There were 8,780 2800CS built through the end of 1970 and 619 in 1971 including all variants so this number makes sense. I wonder if it matches the number stamped under the Karmann plate in the door jamb?
Click to expand...

Oops i wasn’t doing a running total on my 1970 numbers.
 
Interesting comments about the differential. Here is a photo of top of the unit as it is out of the car which we assume to be original. The 3.09 number we posted was found written on the side probably by a prior owner, so we stupidly I suppose thought that was the ratio.

So we just floor measured the number of turns. For one turn of the CV output shafts, the driveshaft input turned, almost exactly 3-1/2 turns. Also we found a stamping on the side that shows a faint 11 38. A search from an old thread reveals

" Gearbox stamped with 11:38 ---> ratio 3,45 = coefficient W=0.718 on speedo So we must have the 3.45"

Sorry for the bad information on the diff. But Thanks to Markos for his take on the number.

Thanks
jjs2800cs

0616211024.jpg
 
I will just now remove the Karmann door plate and reply.
HB Chris said:
There were 8,780 2800CS built through the end of 1970 and 619 in 1971 including all variants so this number makes sense. I wonder if it matches the number stamped under the Karmann plate in the door jamb?
Click to expand...
 
We just removed the Karmann plate and the stamped number matches what is written on the drivers foot well. So we learn something every day. Thus it seems possible the 8592 number is the a sort of running total of the E9 Karmann builds. Interesting stuff.

But the hand written E is still????

Thanks
jjs2800cs
 
jjs2800cs said:
We just removed the Karmann plate and the stamped number matches what is written on the drivers foot well. So we learn something every day. Thus it seems possible the 8592 number is the a sort of running total of the E9 Karmann builds. Interesting stuff.

But the hand written E is still????

Thanks
jjs2800cs
Click to expand...
Since you mention earlier that the car was delivered in Stuttgart Germany, perhaps the "E" is to differentiate delivery in Europe through the build process?
 
Now we need someone with a 3.0CS to see if the number under their Karmann plate on a very early 3.0 starts over as I believe they do.
 
HB Chris said:
Now we need someone with a 3.0CS to see if the number under their Karmann plate on a very early 3.0 starts over as I believe they do.
Click to expand...
That would be interesting if Karmann started all over with the 3.0's. The beer theory seems plausible for the E explanation!!

jjs2800cs
 
Hi guys
I found some 47 Year old graffiti on my coupe also .
Someone wrote 24 and 37 on the rear bulkhead and someone wrote 37 on the inside of the sunroof panel.
On the karmann plate the number 37 is stamped on it.
I have not taken off the karmann plate to look behind it
So I don’t know what is stamped behind it.
My coupe is also a bit different from what one would expect as it is a factory built 3.0 csi right hand drive on a what was previously considered to be a left hand drive only Vin number.

so I also think my guys were definitely on the beer in September 1973 when mine was being built :)

14D7F9E5-CED2-4B4D-8E18-FBD7C367EF39.jpeg
0AF3ACBA-F64A-46FD-9E50-B424987B7F80.jpeg
C6117B77-C7A7-41BE-AB18-F19BBBE0B377.jpeg
1CC969F3-F95A-4CDB-9ECF-7E6DD5EA6E24.jpeg
A891A51B-068D-4DD8-A766-60317D8E374F.png
2B57AE74-46E9-473A-933D-68C7DA571901.jpeg
E2C4E8E3-03A7-48E1-8471-6C539435B854.jpeg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks again Chris
I wonder if the “37” is paint related, perhaps the 24 is also paint shop / body shop related..
So I wonder what does the “24” refer to ?
We’re these numbers solely for the “paint shop”
Is it possible that a 24 on the body shell meant with undercoat / sound deadening and that there was a different number for a CSL which meant without undercoat / sound deadening, ie making the car lighter. ?
Obviously that’s just a guess thinking along the painting spec.
I am sure they knew that fjord was metallic so it would get a clear coat over the metallic whereas a flat / non metallic would not .., so I think 24 does not imply clear coat. ( again I assume that’s how metallic paint was done in the seventies)
Maybe 24 is the colour of the interior
Maybe 24 is the type of wiring loom, is there a different wiring loom for fuel injected cars versus carburettor cars ?
( obviously I know there is more wiring but on some cars the extra wires are just not plugged into / used on the production line )
I am just guessing here ...
Has anyone else seen a number 24 written on their car ????
 

Attachments

  • FB6CC18D-6AB2-44BA-A0A2-4B79E6E7D8DD.jpeg
    FB6CC18D-6AB2-44BA-A0A2-4B79E6E7D8DD.jpeg
    268.4 KB · Views: 101
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top