Not an E9 Build Thread. Bavaria Content within.

[gunmetalgreen]

Hello there guys, new member here. I don't have an E9, but what I do have is a 1972 Bavaria that I got from an older couple. It has been sitting in there garage for 25 years. I'm not quite sure the last time it was started but I know it has been a while. I just got the car to my shop this week, and have been taking all sorts of measures to start to bring the car back.

I have posted a thread on Ultimate bimmerforums, as it was my first find of BMW websites, so if this is considered a "double post" I can remove this thread.

I'm not really sure where to start for details and description. Pictures say a 1000 words so I'll be adding lots. I guess I'll start where I'm at and what I've got into the car so far.

-The car was a gift, aka free. Towing was $90, PB Blaster, and Marval Mystery oil came to $5 each.
-I've drained the oil, and ran about 10 quarts through the engine, just pouring it in the valve cover and letting it drain out the pan.
-Installed the plug, added 5quarts. Tried to turn it over by hand, no luck.
-Per bimmerforum's suggestions, and some of my friends I've added mystery oil to the cylinders and into the valve cover. It's been soaking since 11am yesterday.
-All the tires were flat, and brakes locked up. The towing out of the garage broke 3 of them lose. I've removed the retention bolts that hold the calipers on, but the brake lines that go into the calipers refuse to come off. They have been heavily doused with PB. I can feel the flange nuts starting to round and back off.
-The interior is in pretty good shape, the mice didn't eat it, just brought a bunch of junk into it. I vacuumed it out yesterday and sprayed some air freshener in there. The seats will have to be cleaned of the mold that is on them, but I will save that until I can get the engine turning over.
-At this point I have a 3/4" drive breaker bar and a 1 and 3/16" socket that fits nicely on the crank shaft end bolt/nut. I'm going to try and rock the engine and see if it frees up.

There is so much to do on this car, we will see where it all leads to. I have been offered (for a price) an engine out of a 86' 535i if the , but no CPU and from what I understand I couldn't use the 5spd out of that car due to the rear end being different and the speedo differences. The carbs will need to be rebuilt I believe, and the clutch doesn't move when you press the pedal. So there will be plenty to keep me busy in the next few months.

Some info about my self. I'm a full time college student, and have a part time job to keep money coming in. I don't have tons of free time but I've been working on cars since I was 16 and bought a Saab :confused: So far the car has been pretty easy to work on, knock on wood. Sorry for the novel but I feel it was necessary for this thread.
Now for pictures.

In the garage where it sat.

4 literally brand new tires from 1985

The car was repainted by the owner in 1976, didn't do a great job by any means.

New gas tank was put in 3000 miles before it was parked, I hope for the best.

Lots of original paperwork. Window sticker, all the owners manuals ect. Very cool stuff if you ask me.

In my shop.

The worst rust on the car I would say.

And some by the strut tower.

Mystery oil added by syringe and tubing.

I guess thats all for now. I'll be working on the car today, we'll see about that engine. Hope to hear from you guys soon!

 

[Stevehose]

Awesome barn find - when i bought my car it had sat for 5 years, the interior and trunk (under the trunk panels too-the wood can have mold in it) were covered in mold/mildew also. I suggest while your engine is soaking to go ahead and pull the seats, carpet, and trunk panels out to get some air to them. After a week of airing ang cleaning, finished off with leatherique, they look new so there is hope there.

My gas tank looked like that, I used the por-15 3 step tank restore on it - my now looks new. Otherwise tons of rust will start heading for your carbs is you try and run it in that condish.

I rebuilt my carbs so when you get there there are many here who can help with that too. Get the "major" kits - the one with all the parts from Mesa, they're about 45 bux each.

I am sure other members here will help with the engine - mine ran fortunately so i dont have any tips there. Here's an old thread:

http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3816&highlight=mystery

Bavarias are cool and I am looking forward to seeing your progress. Where in NH are you? There are a couple other members here from there.

 

[gunmetalgreen]

I'm actually located in Chester Vermont, the car was from Walpole Nh. Thanks for the tips on the interior! I've just armoralled it for now, I'm mainly concerned about the engine...just tried to turn the engine with the 3' breaker bar and zero movement. I'm going to take the carbs and intake manifold off and see if I can get more mystery oil in the cylinders.

 

[Buffarea]

Awesome car! Looks very similar to mine, as well as several of the current ailments. Please try to keep updating as current resources for Bavaria parts, repairs and general experiences are drying up.
Keep it up!

 

[gunmetalgreen]

Well I'm doing all of this correspondence off of my iPhone so I'm sorry if I miss a few question. I'm trying to take off the carbs so I can get more marvel into the cylinders. The carbs don't want to come off.
There seem to be four bolts holding them on. 2 14mm on te drivers side and 2 10mm closer to the engine. The 14mm came off quickly but the 10mm are putting up a fight. Plus there is very little room to work. I dread doing the one closer to the fire wall.
Took off the valve cover just for kicks to see what's happening under there.

 

[61porsche]

Wrong bolts....

There are other bolts under there.. easily mistaken for the 4 carb bolts.

Try again. The rear carb- best to pull the manifold.....not going to get to the rear two studs.

Try rocking the motor.. better still jack up the right side to compensate for the 30 degree cant then pour in oil. Rock....

 

[gunmetalgreen]

I'm about ready to break this computer in half. And then got to town on the BMW with a saws all.
Whoever invented the intake manifold bolt pattern should be shot in the head. It is by far the worst design I've seen in a long time. Not only are the bolts almost directly under the individual pipe, but there are "supports" or whatever the heck they are around them so that a regular wrench, or socket won't fit on them. I've "custom" made a wrench that has worked on 2 of the nuts.

To better gain access to the other nuts I've tried to take off the metal bar that connects the two cars. Took out the top two bolts on each side and I can't get it to disconnect from the carbs.

I've really had enough for today. I've tried posting this 3 times. Once from my phone, second two from my computer. What a pain. If there is a specialty BMW tool that I can buy to take the intake off pain free let me know and I will buy it.

 

[Stevehose]

I feel your pain having taken off and rebuilt my carbs and manifolds recently. You may find that taking the rear carb off my allow better access to the manifold, however getting to those nuts isnt easy either - very small turns and flipping the wrench over each time for another angle.

 

[HB Chris]

Yep, as Steve says, those last two nuts are tough, takes a 12mm open end. I removed the rear carb and pulled the head with manifold attached since it was coming off anyway.

 

[61porsche]

Carb removal...PIA

The connecting rod; after you take out the bolts..... use a small open end wrench with a jaw that fits behind the socket and pop the ball off. It just snaps on.

The alternate to manifold is dropping the starter. The top bolt is the hard one.

You need to find a "thin" open end wrench. Craftsmans are a little bulky and the nuts are torqued about 15-20lbs which isn't a lot but I know it's been years. Use penetrating liquid, not WD. For number 5 bottom I stand on the passenger side and use the block as a guide- Stevie Wonder style. The others get easy. Some are reachable with a universal and socket.

Each manifold has a water passage. There's a plate with 4 bolts- 10mm, I think. These are surrounded by the four carb studs/ nuts which are larger- 12 or 13mm. Don't take the small ones out.

You'll get it.

If you're going to use a braker on the crank- 32mm nut.

 

[gunmetalgreen]

Ah. So open ended is the trick? I just kinda figured the boxed end would be best due to having so many more options for angles. I will give the open end a chance. I was just at the point where it felt like there weren't really any options left.
Guess I will have to buy another 12mm wrench and bend the open end. The one I bent was obviously broken before I did anything to it. It was just laying around in the back of the tool box for just this sort of occasion.

 

[Sven]

Here is a photo of the underside of the manifold. You can see the carb bolts are at the corners only. Ignore the others. If the nut is corroded to the long stud it may unscrew at the top (carburetor end).

I have had success using the ratcheting box wrenches. They work great in tight spaces. There is also a version with a hinged head. Removing the starter is difficult without taking off the manifold since the body of the starter is wide and interferes with direct access to the two bolts with a long socket extension from the front.

Once you have it out consider rebuilding the starter motor.
Good luck.

 

[Stevehose]

Open ended wrench for sure (i also got a long 12mm wrench from sears just for these nuts) and definitely consider the starter rebuild/replacement - i did this because i never wanted to go through this process again to get to the starter.

Ah. So open ended is the trick? I just kinda figured the boxed end would be best due to having so many more options for angles. I will give the open end a chance. I was just at the point where it felt like there weren't really any options left.
Guess I will have to buy another 12mm wrench and bend the open end. The one I bent was obviously broken before I did anything to it. It was just laying around in the back of the tool box for just this sort of occasion.

 

[gunmetalgreen]

The connecting rod; after you take out the bolts..... use a small open end wrench with a jaw that fits behind the socket and pop the ball off. It just snaps on.

The alternate to manifold is dropping the starter. The top bolt is the hard one.

You need to find a "thin" open end wrench. Craftsmans are a little bulky and the nuts are torqued about 15-20lbs which isn't a lot but I know it's been years. Use penetrating liquid, not WD. For number 5 bottom I stand on the passenger side and use the block as a guide- Stevie Wonder style. The others get easy. Some are reachable with a universal and socket.

Each manifold has a water passage. There's a plate with 4 bolts- 10mm, I think. These are surrounded by the four carb studs/ nuts which are larger- 12 or 13mm. Don't take the small ones out.

You'll get it.

If you're going to use a braker on the crank- 32mm nut.

Thanks for the help! I was originally trying to remove the water passage bolts after I got the first two easy ones in the front. And I will pop off the throttle connectors soon

Here is a photo of the underside of the manifold. You can see the carb bolts are at the corners only. Ignore the others. If the nut is corroded to the long stud it may unscrew at the top (carburetor end).

I have had success using the ratcheting box wrenches. They work great in tight spaces. There is also a version with a hinged head. Removing the starter is difficult without taking off the manifold since the body of the starter is wide and interferes with direct access to the two bolts with a long socket extension from the front.

Once you have it out consider rebuilding the starter motor.
Good luck.

I will indeed consider the rebuild. What all does it involve? Also where would I get the parts?

Open ended wrench for sure (i also got a long 12mm wrench from sears just for these nuts) and definitely consider the starter rebuild/replacement - i did this because i never wanted to go through this process again to get to the starter.

Thanks

So far I've got 22hrs into the car without a ton to show for it lol
Things are coming slowly. I really want to get the engine freed up. With the removal of the manifold I hope this speeds up the process.

I was given an interesting link on bimmerforums in response to my thread there. http://www.firstfives.org/faq/cylinder_head/cylinder_head_faq.htm
Let me know what you guys think about that.

And as always, thanks for the help. I would be lost without you guys! :mrgreen:

 

[DougE]

Suggestion

This is a small fish considering the larger ones you have to fry, but, you mentioned you had used Armorall, not good. Armorall is a petroleum based silicone and will cause vinyl to dry and crack.
Two products you might consider using instead are UV2 or Stoner Protectant. A fellow that works at the BMW plant in SC said they preferred Stoner. I use UV2 which is a water based silicone, O'Reilly Auto Parts carries Stoner brand.

Carry-On, Doug

 

[Sven]

Have the starter rebuilt professionally. There is usually a rebuilder in most big cities. They will typically rebuild starters, alternators and other motors. I just had one done for around $125-150.

 

[bill]

If I am not too late already, allow me to suggest removing the front manifold/carb first. No need to remove carbs first. The throttle linkage, already loosened, will be removable then. Also, I never had to remove the starter. Once the front man. is off, getting to the rear manifold-to-head nuts is much easier. I have also had luck with off-set box end wrenches (Chinese) along with regular sized box end/open end wrenches (Craftsman). Removing the manifolds/carbs the first time is the hardest..you'll quickly get the hang. Note on re-assembly: put the rear manifold/carb back first, put the linkage bar in the rear socket, hold it there, and with your third hand (or an assistant or duct tape or something), reassemble the front manifold/carb. In my experience it was not possible to remove the linkage or replace it any other way. Good luck, and have beers every so often.

 

[gunmetalgreen]

So I've got a little bit of an update.
Finally got all of the bolts off!! The last one near the water pump was a huge pain in the butt, but at last it came off. But there are still all of the hoses holding everything in place.

This metal (gas line I'm guessing?) line I loosened the nut but I can't get it to release from the carb. Any hints?

I'm going to plan on cutting all the rusted nasty hose clamps off with a dermal. Then hopefully I can put the manifolds off finally.

Another step made. Kind of. I took the front calipers off. I tried to take out the fittings into the caliper. They felt like they were going to round off. So I tried the upper connection, and proceeded to break off the line, and then the other line. And the exact same thing happened on the drivers side. So I guess that's progress.

23.5hrs in

Thank you all for the help.

 

[Stevehose]

Those are the EGR lines, once you have them unscrewed you have to pull them straight out a bit because they go in a ways into the manifold. You'll have to tug at them because the metal pipes won't want to go in that direction. I took all that stuff off and capped those fittings - caps available at an Ace hardware.

This metal (gas line I'm guessing?) line I loosened the nut but I can't get it to release from the carb. Any hints?

 

[gunmetalgreen]

Victory is mine!!`

So finally I got both of the intakes/carbs off! Lots of curd all over the place. I will vac it out and then I can start adding MMO to the intake ports. I really don't want to have to pull the head to rebuild the engine. If it comes to it I'm looking into a 3.5l from a 86' 535i. But progress is being made.
I'm not going to pull the carbs apart until I have the rebuild kits to put them both back together. I've never had a car sized carborator apart, just snowmobile/dirtbike/small engine. I can't imagine its to much different, just remove the parts, clean um and put everything back the way it should be :mrgreen:

Where should I be capping the line? Right were it comes to the "T"?