Paint originality

Drew Gregg

Drew Gregg

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I have read many posts about bolt colors and plating/painting. I have seen the correct amount of overspray done by the factory under the car.
All of these topics have been compared to completely original from the factory standards.
I have owned my 2002 since new and know what it looked like May 31, 1972 when I drove it home from Charlotte to Hickory N.C..
The Malaga paint had orange peel just like the Bavaria and 3.0CS that were in the showroom.
But now the 6 figure/multiple-year completely correct restorations have wet sanded and glass smooth paint surfaces.
The BMW's didn't leave the factory like that even to this day.
How do the straw hat judges at the Concours score these paint jobs?
 
This is a really interesting topic to me. Having worked at a BMW dealer for a number of years back in the late 80's/early 90's, I clearly remember the orange peel paint finish that all the new cars came with when new. Having been a "car guy" before that, I reevaluated my opinion on paint and started to think that orange peel must be "quality" because BMW cars represented quality (at least back then). I even remember getting into a bit of an argument with a friend of mine who worked at a body shop. He touted the quality of the glass smooth paintwork on "custom" cars. I argued that a quality paint job had a bit of a texture like a new BMW. I laugh at myself sometimes (often).
 
This is the point I was making in post 29 or this thread. Because they are OUR cars, we get to choose which original features we are going to duplicate and which we are going to change.

Personally I wouldn't put up with original semi dull paint with orange peel, or a York AC compressor, or painted fender bolts ;)...but others may find these original "features" important and replicate them. Same goes for super detailed undercarriages, stainless exhaust, more HP, 5 speeds, etc. With the same car, we are allowed to agonize over the exact headlight bulb type installed at the factory in the week of the production of our car, AND give no thought to changing the color. It's all fun and the owner is the only one that has to be pleased with the decisions.
 
From what I can tell most every high dollar restoration shop is going to make the gaps better than they were new and the finish quality of the paint is going to far and away exceed what the factory did. You see it all the time with domestic muscle cars which were average cars thrown together with ballpark gaps and ill-fitting trim etc. Not to mention as paint chemistry an technology has changed over the years, the tools are there to create a higher quality product and I don't know many people that wouldn't take that opportunity.

If you watch Graveyard Carz, they make a huge deal about everything being correct, or correct as possible (ehhh, I guess as much as you can be with repop parts) but always say that the body and paint is of course way better.

You look at new vehicles today. People are paying six figures for vehicles (trucks, high end SUVs, etc) where the bodywork isn't flat. The doors look pillowy. No straight reflections.
 
Here is my experience as somebody who has had their E9 Batmobile judged at Pebble Beach Concours and three other cars judged there at different times

The judges are looking for correctness on restored cars, but not stupidity. You start with all your points like everybody else, then points are deducted along the way. So if all shuts are better than factory, you don't lose points. How could any judge make a distinction on which shut was correct and which wasn't new on a restored car ?

Paintwork is correct color post-war or period correct pre-war, again, paint should be perfect, now there will be some leeway on slight orange peel on some post war cars, if you can justify it was built that way and if its uniform, some judges accept it, some won't.

Very different if you enter the preservation class, that is where judges overall knowledge and experience come into being and they will often ask for help, both before the concours and during. While my Batmobile is restored, the normal three judges who were judging my car, asked if a forth judge could join them as he looked after BMWs cars at the Zentrum for many years and would help them with certain aspects they might struggle with.

In essence, if you are restoring, make it as beautiful, straight, crisp and perfect as possible (or anything else that pleases you) but replicating Fritz or Hans mistakes to earn a glass trophy or wooden plaque just does not make sense - to me anyway.
 
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BMW Pete said:
n essence, if you are restoring, make it as beautiful, straight, crisp and perfect as possible, replicating Fritz or Hans mistakes to earn a glass trophy or wooden plaque just does not make sense - to me anyway.
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I don't think they were "mistakes". Fritz and Hans were working with the then current paint chemistry, the accounts' requirement that there wasn't money in the budget to color sand and buff every car, production equipment limits on panel gap accuracy, the current state of the art with AC systems, lack of 5 speed OD transmissions, etc. We get to change as many (or as few) of these type of things as we want to.

There are individuals (and organizations) that prefer not to change anything from how the car was delivered originally. Cars are judged using that criteria. That's OK too.

It's a hobby.
 
I cannot speak to the sobriety of Fritz, Hans and their pals on the assembly line. A colleague of mine did indicate that there were vending machines that served beer in a business where he worked in Germany, and I have spent work days in Germany and Austria, in the last 10 years, but don't recall alcohol being available in the cafeterias. I have seen the local high school kids stopping for a beer after school in Munich, and didn't see any of them drunk, so I suspect alcohol is not the cause of orange peel on the paint work of our cars.

More likely it is the chemistry of the product, the speed of production and the need to have a financially viable product at the end of the day. The after-work to correct orange peel is labor intensive (read costly) and perhaps not valued by the buyers of the cars as it seems as though they were all sold.

I do remember picking up new cars, hundreds of them, from SF Bay Area dealerships in the 70's and 80's. They were bought to be company vehicles for a firm that I worked for. Some (no BMW's) were so bad that I literally had to limp them into the shop for follow-up repairs. Specifically remember driving a brand new Buick and the misfire from push rods that had "dropped out" lost at least one cylinder on a 4 cylinder car.
 
boonies said:
I cannot speak to the sobriety of Fritz, Hans and their pals on the assembly line. A colleague of mine did indicate that there were vending machines that served beer in a business where he worked in Germany, and I have spent work days in Germany and Austria, in the last 10 years, but don't recall alcohol being available in the cafeterias.
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My office has a badge activated keg. We are only building software however.
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When I worked in the Honolulu store for a certain large retailer of computers and phones as a genius we were told that a beer at lunch was ok, but not to return to work impaired or there would be consequences. The corporate HQ had beer bashes on the main campus on, I think, alternate Friday evenings for a long time.
 
Back in the 80’s work lunch at our trendy commercial real estate office consisted of pitchers of martinis and sometimes controlled substances. Thankfully the days of liquid lunch are long gone.
 
Back in 1983, the BMWCCA had a tour of all of the BMW factories in Germany & Austria. I remember walking by the cafeteria in Munich and the workers were drinking beer with their lunches. One young mother was nursing her baby while drinking a beer. 'Nuff said about beer and the quality of work done in those BMW factories.
The real judge of whether the paint finish should be glass smooth or slightly rippled or the bolts & nuts used on any hobby car should be painted or plated or just wire brushed is the owner of the car. We should make our cars look the way we want them to look.
I also own a 2017 Mercedes GLE 43 AMG, bought new. There was a very slight dent in the top of the rear door when I bought the truck. The paintless dent tech removed the dent and then took a small hammer and tapped the area where he had just worked. He told me he was putting the "orange peel" effect back into the factory paint!
 
I'm curious, when they look at paint during show events do judges check for orange peel and/or paint surface quality or just overall look of the paint/car? Most shows I've been to the cars are in bright sunlight and it's really hard to tell how nice paint is when it's bright outside. Overcast days and shade show more of the surface quality, and of course night time with lights reflecting or in a shop. When I do my own paint I try to make it look as nice as I can inside the shop with lights reflecting on it, then figure anywhere else will look as good or better.

I just finished sanding and polishing a freshly painted hood last night. The paint went on really well, mostly because the hood was off the car and flat on a table. I sanded with 2000 grit until it showed no unsanded areas (dull surface with no small "specks" of gloss showing). After cut and polish it ended up with a nice looking orange peel surface not flat. My point is, getting a truly flat polished surface is not easy.
 
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