Present-day values of German classic sports cars

Drew Gregg

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JFENG

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Exceptions to the general softness in the E9 market are the 2 CSI's that sold recently on BAT for $138 and $160.
 

Arde

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Imported by Hoffman in New York. Hoffman is the unsung hero of German sports cars in the US...
 

Dick Steinkamp

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A 1958 Porsche Speedster did not make reserve today at $222K. on BaT.


The same car in Sept 2022 did not make the reserve at $356K. I wonder what the reserve prices were for both auctions. Doesn't BaT help set the reserve pricing?

Our E9 and E3 cars will not see the post-Covid prices either for quite a while.....
If you don't have to sell a collector car right now...don't.

However, if you have some spare cash laying around it just might be a good time to buy.

I wish I had an explanation for this dip in collector car prices. Interest rates can't make that big of a difference. Anyone?
 

Arde

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If you don't have to sell a collector car right now...don't.

However, if you have some spare cash laying around it just might be a good time to buy.

I wish I had an explanation for this dip in collector car prices. Interest rates can't make that big of a difference. Anyone?
Is it specific to 1970s?
There is the phenomenon that the generation that lusted for them in the teens/twenties eventually fades, it is natural that the nostalgia forces go away and prices drops.

Paraphrasing Judges 2:10:
Now that whole generation, the generation that had walked with Carl Nelson —the generation that saw the walls of Detroit fall—that generation passed on, and another generation grew up after them, a generation that did not know the E9 and had not seen the great works BMW had done for California drivers...
 

adawil2002

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I fortunately was born into a car collecting family.

In 1955ish my grandparents, who lived in Darien Connecticut, bought a Black 1919 Dodge Touring car & a 14 year old White 1934 Packard Super 8 Convertible Coupe Roadster with a single rear mounted spare. My mom drove the Packard to Darien High School her Junior & Senior years. She married Jonathan "Jack" Adams in 1960, my brother was born in March of 1963. My mom & brother were driven home in the 1934 Packard.

In 1959, having sold the 1919 Dodge, my grandfather bought a 1914 KisselKar 4-40 Touring. Which I still own & have on permanent loan to the Hartford Auto Museum in Wisconsin where the cars were made from 1906-1930.

50 years ago my grandparents owned 3 one-of-a kind antique & classic cars. A 1913 Armleder, found derelict in a field in Connecticut, which he & a gifted metalworker friend rebuilt as a "Depot Hack". This was sold in 1977 & is now part of a German Auto Museum. The 1914 KisselKar mentioned in Wisconsin. Th "Crown Jewel" of the 3 cars was his stewardship of the Individual Custom 1932 Twin Six Dietrich Convertible Victoria with rear mounted spares, which he owned from 1964-1979. This Packard was restored by RM & won the Packard Open Class, Most Elegant Packard & was in the running for Best of Show at Pebble Beach in 2017. In the 1979 cash & trade sale of the "Twin Six" came a 1005 1933 Packard Twelve Convertible Coupe Roadster, which is what I learned to drive in.

When my grandfather passed away in 1998 the 1914 KisselKar & 1933 Packard were left to me. In 2018 I parted ways with the 1933 Packard. Ultimately rehoming it to a family in Greenwich CT who have 2 teenage sons & now own 4 Packards. A 1930 Boat Tail Speedster, a 1932 Standard 8 Sport Phaeton, my-ex 1933 Twelve, originally delivered to Bridgeport CT in March 1933 to business man in NJ & 1948 Super 8 Sedan, the only year the only external place it says Packard on the trunk lid.




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Nicad

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Wow, those are gorgeous! Your family have been very good stewards of Automotive history.
 

craterface

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1950s Alfas are doing even worse than the Germans lately. Two 1900CSS coupes, both nice, failed to break 200k in recent weeks. RNM. More modern cars are hanging in there. 1950s not so much. For modern drivers, they are very slow, while a Ferrari 550 Maranello, for example, still feels fast. 550s are doing great.
 

coupedegrace

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I expect this might be a case of confirmation bias, but it also seems to me that the "speculative purchase" market is going a bit soft too. I'm not sure what the correct term for purchasing a limited edition car to store for a little while then resell at a prophet is, but that's what I'm talking about.

There have been quite a few very low mileage cars lately that have been RNM. A few off the top of my head include a Honda Civic Type R, a Lucid Air and a few more exotic cars. I expect the hot (perhaps overheated) collector car market of the last few years coupled with the market distortions caused by Covid supply chain issues led to an increase in this type of "investing."

Yes, those quotation marks represent disapproval of the practice on my part. Quite frankly I kind of enjoy seeing individuals who buy vehicles solely for the purpose of flipping them take a bath. Maybe it will teach them to invest their money somewhere where it actually adds value.

There are exceptions to this (possibly imaginary) trend: P-cars and the final versions of the Dodge Challenger/Charger models such as the Hellcat, Beelzebub, Ol' Scratch, and the Spawn of Satan 666 all spring to mind.
 

JFENG

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1950s Alfas are doing even worse than the Germans lately. Two 1900CSS coupes, both nice, failed to break 200k in recent weeks. RNM. More modern cars are hanging in there. 1950s not so much. For modern drivers, they are very slow, while a Ferrari 550 Maranello, for example, still feels fast. 550s are doing great.
This is why the advice to, "buy what you like, not what makes the best investment," is really GOOD advice. Buying for investment purposes is a very different thing. Having said that, there are cars I like that are good investments. I would love to have an alloy bodied 300SL, a 250 GTO, or an Aston DB4GT Zagato. Alas, I've not yet won the lottery and I have a family which expects me to take care of them financially (even when I'm dead and gone).

John
 

Arde

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...
Quite frankly I kind of enjoy seeing individuals who buy vehicles solely for the purpose of flipping them take a bath...
Enjoying when a car speculator takes a bath is called "epicaricacy". When the car is a German classic it is proper to use the word:

scha·den·freu·de. /ˈSHädənˌfroidə/

Don't feel bad, I read that schadenfreude has been detected in children as young as 24 months and may be an important social emotion establishing "inequity aversion".

And here I stop, an inch from the slippery slope of commentary.
 
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