do you have any pictures of your setup?
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Question for those w/coilovers...
- Thread starter teahead
- Start date
Yes, more please. Is that a ground control setup? On an E9?
I was considering going with the Ireland Engineering setup. I see you have adjustable camber plates. How is the ride? The guys at IE said it will add some harshness and reduce the available drop you can have?
I don't plan on a massive drop; just maybe 2".
Setup is on an E3 Bav. Identical suspension geometry and components.
The adjustable camber plates are IE. I purchased the threaded sleeve and spring perch from separate sources. Springs are 7" Eibach 400lbs and actually the ride is great. Not too harsh and the drop is probably a bit over 2" (but not much more). I believe that the adjustable camber plates actually increase the available drop because the upper spring perch ends up closer to the upper mount points. With the 7" spring, my spring perch is bottomed out for maximum drop. The base of the collar and sleeve rest upon the original spring perch that was remaining after I cut off the excess (see pic). Forum member Peterinfla (I still owe him $75) was very helpful in discussions for the setup. I used the adjustable camber plates to make sure that with the vehicle lowered, I would be able to maintain some negative camber in the setup. That said, I think you could probably get by with fixed camber plates (since I think they are good for -3 degrees) if you were only dropping 2" (IE sells an adapter plate for the upper perch for reduced coilover spring diameter.
The caveat to using adjustable camber plates is that you have to switch to E30 inserts because the shock bolt on E9/E3 inserts is larger diameter than any BMW (Ground Control, IE, Technotoytuning, etc.) camber plates can accommodate (as a result I have a brand new set of E9/E3 HD Bilstein Inserts for sale - if anybody is reading this and is interested send me a PM).
Drew
The adjustable camber plates are IE. I purchased the threaded sleeve and spring perch from separate sources. Springs are 7" Eibach 400lbs and actually the ride is great. Not too harsh and the drop is probably a bit over 2" (but not much more). I believe that the adjustable camber plates actually increase the available drop because the upper spring perch ends up closer to the upper mount points. With the 7" spring, my spring perch is bottomed out for maximum drop. The base of the collar and sleeve rest upon the original spring perch that was remaining after I cut off the excess (see pic). Forum member Peterinfla (I still owe him $75) was very helpful in discussions for the setup. I used the adjustable camber plates to make sure that with the vehicle lowered, I would be able to maintain some negative camber in the setup. That said, I think you could probably get by with fixed camber plates (since I think they are good for -3 degrees) if you were only dropping 2" (IE sells an adapter plate for the upper perch for reduced coilover spring diameter.
The caveat to using adjustable camber plates is that you have to switch to E30 inserts because the shock bolt on E9/E3 inserts is larger diameter than any BMW (Ground Control, IE, Technotoytuning, etc.) camber plates can accommodate (as a result I have a brand new set of E9/E3 HD Bilstein Inserts for sale - if anybody is reading this and is interested send me a PM).
Drew
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decoupe
(deceased)
Drew, a question about spring rates. The lowering springs we all generally use from LAJolla are 265lbs. GC recommended 275 - 300lb in an 8" spring with their coil overs for street use (as did IE).
If yours are 400lb rated springs then the length of the spring is a factor? Seems obvious so why 7" versus 8"? More extreme drop?
Doug
If yours are 400lb rated springs then the length of the spring is a factor? Seems obvious so why 7" versus 8"? More extreme drop?
Doug
Hi Doug. To be honest, this was a lot of trial and error (mostly on the part of Peter -Peterinfla). I spoke with him regarding his spring choices and as I recall, he had attempted using 300# springs and they pretty much collapsed on him just setting the car down. That said, I believe he was using 6 in springs. I'll ask him to comment on his experiences but based on our discussions, I bought his extra set of 400# 6" springs from him (hence the $75 that I sent him today) to try out on my car. I found these to be a bit stiff, and also felt that they were nearly collapsing when hitting deep pavement bumps not because of the rate necessarily but because there was just not enough space left between the coils on the 6 in spring. I was also concerned that, based upon measurements, there was a potential for the shock insert to bottom out at/or slightly before the spring coils bottomed out.
So, I picked up the 7" 400# spring and gained nearly an inch of travel, while also getting a smoother ride (because of the longer spring) that does not at all feel like it is bottoming out on deep bumps. Peter is using 350# 7" springs but has lightened his car quite a bit. Honestly, even my wife says the car is very comfortable to ride in and she complains that her 2005 Mini Cooper S is way too stiff on the road.
Regarding 7 vs 8: I have my 7" springs as low as possible and that is the look I prefer on the Bav. Had I used 8" springs, the car would have to ride about an inch higher than desired. Simple as that...more extreme drop.
Sorry for the long answer to your simple question.
So, I picked up the 7" 400# spring and gained nearly an inch of travel, while also getting a smoother ride (because of the longer spring) that does not at all feel like it is bottoming out on deep bumps. Peter is using 350# 7" springs but has lightened his car quite a bit. Honestly, even my wife says the car is very comfortable to ride in and she complains that her 2005 Mini Cooper S is way too stiff on the road.
Regarding 7 vs 8: I have my 7" springs as low as possible and that is the look I prefer on the Bav. Had I used 8" springs, the car would have to ride about an inch higher than desired. Simple as that...more extreme drop.
Sorry for the long answer to your simple question.
Lookin pretty mean Drew, it was nice meeting you the other weekend when you were in SoCal at C&C. Maybe you can drive this to SoCal Vintage next year, great turn out. I think they estimated around 450 cars. Up from 300+/- last year I guess. Keep up the good work. Keep the pictures coming too!
'69 2800cs
Well-Known Member
It's been a few years but here's what I recall.
I gave Ground Control all the dimensions of my strut, including the diameter of the body, diameter of the shaft and the length above the spring perch. They sent me 6", 350 lb springs and camber plates that worked with my existing inserts. I had cut the rears, I think a coil and a half so he estimated the 350 to match that. I used the stock spring perches as is.
Before that, I put the car on my lift with the strut installed but no springs. This allowed me to drop the car on to the bump stops, then raise it up 2.5 inches, which GC said was the minimum needed travel. The ride is comfy and the only time I've bottomed the suspension was hitting a pothole, and I do drive the car a lot.
IMO, all cars should have adjustable camber plates, not only for camber but for adjustable caster as well. These old tubs can't possibly be perfectly straight anymore and getting those two settings dialed in and matched side to side makes for a nicer driving car.
I gave Ground Control all the dimensions of my strut, including the diameter of the body, diameter of the shaft and the length above the spring perch. They sent me 6", 350 lb springs and camber plates that worked with my existing inserts. I had cut the rears, I think a coil and a half so he estimated the 350 to match that. I used the stock spring perches as is.
Before that, I put the car on my lift with the strut installed but no springs. This allowed me to drop the car on to the bump stops, then raise it up 2.5 inches, which GC said was the minimum needed travel. The ride is comfy and the only time I've bottomed the suspension was hitting a pothole, and I do drive the car a lot.
IMO, all cars should have adjustable camber plates, not only for camber but for adjustable caster as well. These old tubs can't possibly be perfectly straight anymore and getting those two settings dialed in and matched side to side makes for a nicer driving car.
decoupe
(deceased)
Thanks for the information - sounds like I will be trying 7" springs.
I have removed the power steering, AC parts, battery, bumper, viscous fan assembly and some other lesser bits and the front has risen accordingly (the photo was before the PS was removed so now even higher). The space above the tire to the wheel arch is well over 1 1/2" and the rear is basically flush so some drop is needed - maybe not the full 2" but close. Winter work.
Doug
I have removed the power steering, AC parts, battery, bumper, viscous fan assembly and some other lesser bits and the front has risen accordingly (the photo was before the PS was removed so now even higher). The space above the tire to the wheel arch is well over 1 1/2" and the rear is basically flush so some drop is needed - maybe not the full 2" but close. Winter work.
Doug
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If you search on this forum carefully, more and more options for making the front suspension of our cars adjustable have been posted. Drew summed up my experience well. My car is altered and light, so that influenced how I had to do things. After messing with spring length and rate for a while, the big breakthrough for me was the Ground Control adjustable camber and caster plates. Over the years I read very helpful posts by Barry, 69 2800cs, Branden and I believe Cole. Consider what you want your car to be when finished. Lots of options between full blown race car and factory stock. All is well now, but if I had it to do all over again, I would take a long hard look at the great solution that some of the guys out in California (at least that's where my introduction to the idea came from) have come up with over the years. I think a few people have gone this route, but as far as I know it has never been discussed in detail on this forum. See Mike's (OCCoupe) build thread page #6 where he gives us the basics. Again, lots of options.
Best, Peter.
Best, Peter.
'69 2800cs
Well-Known Member
I've got one more enhancement coming this winter-spacers between the A arm and the bottom of the strut.
They're pretty easy to find for the 2002 but not the E9. I bought some that fit an E12 from AKG Motorsport and I'm told they fit...haven't tried it yet.
The idea is to get the A arm and steering geometry back into the zone they were designed to work in, while still allowing the ride height to be low. Right now my A arms are a little past vertical, so I also expect a smidge more negative camber too.
They're pretty easy to find for the 2002 but not the E9. I bought some that fit an E12 from AKG Motorsport and I'm told they fit...haven't tried it yet.
The idea is to get the A arm and steering geometry back into the zone they were designed to work in, while still allowing the ride height to be low. Right now my A arms are a little past vertical, so I also expect a smidge more negative camber too.