Randy Noonenberg?BAT good taste
- Thread starter Wobdog
- Start date
I cornered Randy after his talk and suggested BaT should provide upfront information on the facts about registering Euro cars in California because sellers are spouting BS about that and also about the Montana “work around”. He responded that they are reluctant to interfere with auctions, but he understood the issue and would think about other ways to inform buyers. I’m not sure he was serious about it or fully understands the issue as he should. It was perfect that his closing slide was the Samboss green CSL that didn’t meet reserve yesterday. I mentioned buyers may be getting wise to Sam’s incorrect statements. BaT just kicked off a payment processing and registration service. Maybe a few failures to register cars by them will wake them up.
Let’s be clear- specifically it says ALL states but only on ELIGIBLE listings.
Thats a qualifier big enough to make a 3 point turn in……
”is available at the buyer’s choice on ELIGIBLE private-party listings“
”on ELIGIBILE private-party listings in all 50 US states”
Thats a qualifier big enough to make a 3 point turn in……
”is available at the buyer’s choice on ELIGIBLE private-party listings“
”on ELIGIBILE private-party listings in all 50 US states”
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This is all lawyered-up language from the corporate parent, as you know. Hearst has plenty of lawyers.
It always amuses me when they say “refurbishment” rather than restoration. There can be photo evidence of every nut and bolt refinished, and they still use the word.
I think Randy and Howard are following the lead of the attorneys at the company. Which is wise, really. So they will end up doing whatever they are told by the legal department, despite nodding their head to suggestions given at the auction.
That said, a BaT story or podcast with an interview with a California DMV official would be helpful and informative. My California friends all seem to be well aware of the rules on euro models. Maybe some buyers are simply unaware, which is hard to fathom. Among my buddies, none has a Montana registered car, because they say it is only a matter of time before one gets pulled over in California for such an infraction.
I know that there is supposed to be this in ads for cars that are qualified…
Can someone show me one on a live ad?
Can someone show me one on a live ad?
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Great idea, because it is very difficult to find the rules clearly written out on the CA DMV website, and we have all experienced different clerks at different branches have different ideas about what the rules are.
Frankly I dont get why everyone feels they have to get involved with registering a car purchased by some unknown buyer. So what..if they want to go to Montana or have a workaround or don't and have limited options, who cares? Everyone is an adult and can do their own research and come to their own conclusions. Re BaT is taking the obvious and legally conservative way out. Totally appropriate as a business. My 2 cents
I agree with you that buyers should do their own research. What I object to is sellers telling lies about ease of California registration of foreign imports or the sure thing of Montana registration.
...and BaT being somewhat complaisant with that.
I did get this today from Ed B. from Caramel.. but no word on California.
”As long as that gray market vehicle has an existing US title, then we should be able to handle the title transfer & registration. If the car has never been titled/registered in the US, then we will unfortunately not be able to facilitate the title & registration on your behalf.”
”As long as that gray market vehicle has an existing US title, then we should be able to handle the title transfer & registration. If the car has never been titled/registered in the US, then we will unfortunately not be able to facilitate the title & registration on your behalf.”
FYI- I have a client in $150k who can’t drive his Italian Csi bought from Virginia because California won’t register it.
Yes, we are all adults here. And you and I understand the issue. And there may be workarounds, but there may not be either. And the rules about importing old cars that will be driven very little are silly. Vintage cars contribute almost nothing to air pollution, because so few miles are driven.
But the seller calls himself a private seller, and acts like he owned the cars and sent them to Oldenzaal for restoration. Really, he is a reseller, so he should get a California dealer license. Also, he sells more than five cars a year, which make a dealer license mandatory in CA. But most importantly, he made statements to the effect that it would be no problem to register the car in CA.
If he just presented the car and made no statements about ownership and no statements about registration status then it would be a different story. And if he conducted his business outside of CA, he wouldn't get into hot water. But he operates out of Temecula. Should have set this up in Nevada or MT.
Montana law prohibits Dealer sales of automobiles off site from the Dealer licensed location unless approved by permit. And they don’t approve out of state sales like this.
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Correspondence with Caramel (agent for BAT)
| Ed B. (Caramel) Mar 25, 2024, 1:04 PM PDT Hi Don, Congrats on the very cool restoration shop! E9 coupes are amazing  With regards to California DMV and registration, if the vehicle does not adhere to the Grey Market requirements as set forth by the CA DMV, we wouldn't be able to bypass any of their requirements, of course. Our understanding is that the vehicles would still need to have the safety and emissions equipment required by the US for that year. Below is a link you may already be familiar with as it pertains to California and Grey Market vehicles. https://www.bar.ca.gov/arsc/newsletters/newsletter/fall-2020/grey-market-vehicle-inspections#:~:text=The United States Department of,sold in the United States All the best, Caramel Support |
Grey Market Vehicle Inspections
Imported vehicles originally intended by their manufacturers for sale outside the United States are identified as “grey market” vehicles. Grey market vehicles rarely meet California or United States Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA) emissions standards when initially imported into the country. In addition, these vehicles have different vehicle inspection number (VIN) configurations and foreign or missing emission and/or safety manufacturer labels.The United States Department of Transportation’s Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration and the USEPA set requirements for grey market vehicles. To be registered in California, grey market vehicles generally must meet the emission standards for the same model year vehicles sold in the United States. Requirements vary by model year and may include major modifications, a certificate of conformance from a California Air Resources Board (CARB) authorized laboratory, a BAR Referee label, and a Smog Check certificate.
Before inspecting a grey market vehicle, the Smog Check inspector must verify during the visual inspection the vehicle has an emissions label from the BAR Referee. The BAR Referee label identifies the vehicle’s certification type and emission control requirements. It is typically affixed to the driver’s side door post or may be located under the hood. When prompted by the inspection system, the inspector must enter “R” for the vehicle’s certification type and inspect the vehicle using the emission control requirements listed on the BAR Referee label. For complete inspection procedures and requirements, refer to the Smog Check Manual.
Consumers requesting an inspection of a grey market vehicle without a BAR Referee label should be referred to the BAR Referee at (800) 622-7733 to schedule an appointment. Additional information concerning registration requirements for grey market vehicles is available by contacting CARB at [email protected] or visiting www.arb.ca.gov.
otter74
Well-Known Member
sfdon, I wonder if your experience may illuminate a potential situation with one of my cars. I own an '85 Saab 900 SPG that is a Canadian-market car. It was a lifetime BC car until I bought it in 2017 and road-tripped it home. It's been registered in Illinois since then. Canadian Saabs of that era were identical to US Saabs aside from headlamps (they used the Euro lamps), cluster (metric), and labeling. Powertrain and emissions equipment is identical. It has a CADOT compliance sticker, but not a USDOT compliance sticker. Is this practically registerable in California? I'm going to sell it later this year and it would be useful to know with some certainty for potential CA buyers.