Replacement Eng & Trans for 1970 2800 CS

bcoli

bcoli

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Hi All,

Am I correct that I can use the engine & 5 speed from a 1981 733i without too much trouble? I am going to use dual Webers.

Where can I find good Webers (I have heard that new ones are not the quality that they used to be).

Thanks for your help,
Bill 8)
 
bcoli said:
Where can I find good Webers (I have heard that new ones are not the quality that they used to be).
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The lore among the Weber DCOE (sidedraft) community is that new carbs, built in Spain, are of poorer quality than the earlier ones that were made in Italy. I don't know when production was moved. So if you want an Italian-made Weber DCOE, you can't get it from one of the suppliers of new parts, such as Redline or Weber Carbs Direct. You would have to find an older set on ebay or at a swap meet.

If you run sidedrafts, you will need three and a manifold.

Although my own coupe has a pair of Weber DGV (downdraft, manual choke) Webers, I know less about their current country of origin, and/or how the quality of contemporary carbs compares with older ones. It may be that the quality of current DGV or DGAV (coolant operated choke) carbs is just fine.

If you run downdrafts, you will need two and they will bolt to a stock BMW carburetor manifold.
 
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I've had both downdrafts and prefer good Zeniths over good Webers. Triples are a different animal.
 
Stevehose said:
I've had both downdrafts and prefer good Zeniths over good Webers. Triples are a different animal.
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I'd say that downdraft Webers are only as good as they're jetting. Stock Zeniths are jetted correctly from the factory... But how many M30s out there have Weber DGVs that don't have quite the right jets? Probably many of them.
 
jmackro said:
The lore among the Weber DCOE (sidedraft) community is that new carbs, built in Spain, are of poorer quality than the earlier ones that were made in Italy.
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Can anyone say what exactly is of poorer quality with non-Italian Webers, and what the symptoms are?

-Scott
 
The engine and trans will work, but that would be a lot of work for a not very powerful version of the engine. The trans would be excellent, though, as it should be a Getrag 265 with the mechanical pickup.
 
I've heard that the casting molds deteriorated somewhat and quality control slipped when production was underway in spain. Symptoms could be poor fit, loose tolerances, vacuum leaks etc. but i've heard not all were bad too.


sreams said:
Can anyone say what exactly is of poorer quality with non-Italian Webers, and what the symptoms are?



-Scott
Click to expand...
 
sreams said:
Can anyone say what exactly is of poorer quality with non-Italian Webers, and what the symptoms are?
Click to expand...

Well, I did say this was "lore" - not statistically proven fact. See remarks like the one in post #11 at: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/carburetors-fuel-injection-air-intake/201794-dcoe-differences.html

My sense is that quality is not as consistent with the Spainish-made Webers - you might buy six that were fine, but the seventh would have loose screws, rough machining, incorrect float height, etc. So serious racers will disassemble new carbs to polish off burrs, blow machining debris out passageways, check float levels, ... This sort of work is sometimes called "blueprinting". So it isn't that the Spanish-made carbs can't be made to work; it's just that they may not work correctly out-of-the-box.
 
Re: Italia (series 9s) vs. Espania (152s)

Have rebuilt/refurb'd both DGVs and DCOEs.

The older Italians (series 9s) used ball bearings on the shaft (check for play/slop). If there is slop.....good luck tuning to 100%. Spanish use a cartridge bearing.

Beware: there can be a few different older DCOE series out there. Know what you are looking for (series 9), other series runs can cause headaches, frustration and become useless but charming expensive paperweights.

If you can even 'find' 3x old italian (series 9s...hoarded today?), you are likely entering a competitive hunt and bid war against those that 'have' to have them too (Alfa, Jag, Ferrari, Lambo, Maser, Aston Martin folks etc) for their high dollar concourse resto. Spanish 152s are brand new, clean, on the shelf now, likely have a warranty, Tech support, are basically ready to go!

Plan on rebuilding/rejetting/cleaning everything on an older set of Italians from the get go, then install and dyno tune and hope the old girls are solid (most like are).

New DCOEs you open the box, inspect (tweak if ya like), install, hit the dyno then the road or track. Done. Huge time, $$, and drama savers.

My two cents: if you are going drive/use it go with known entity and source. If you are building a museum pc that will see little use: happy hunting and prepare to cross swords.

hth
 
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