RHD manual steering box conversion

[30csl]

Hi guys,

I am about to do this swap from PS to manual.
I need to lengthen the steering shaft but having searched it is unclear bu how much. In one post it was 220mm which is definitely too much.

It seems to be about an inch and a half and I am assuming it is the same for RHD as LHD.

Anyone know the amount?

Many thanks,

Rohan

 

[DJSimca]

Rohan,

I have a steering shaft which is from a manual. The entire length of that shaft is 53,3 cm (from end to 'rubber disc')

Compare that with your existing steering shaft and you should be set.

Rgds,

 

[30csl]

Hey DJ, thats great - thanks - I will measure this Friday when i am near it and will let the board know.

Regards,

Rohan

 

[timt]

Rohan, couple of points which may (or may not) be relevant:

If you have a fabricated manifold, watch the clearance to the lower column as the manual box results in a slightly more acute lower column angle pushing it closer to the down pipes ... will depend on the manifold pattern.

Second, I recently installed a NOS box from W&N. This replaced a manual box installed for me some years back but binned due to excessive wear ... the spline pitch on the new box was not the same as the old and the eventual solution was to have a new lower universal joint made up with appropriate ptiches at the opposite ends! It may be that my lower column sourced with the previous box came from a donor car from a different planet (!), we never got to the botom of it. Just do a quick check before you pull too much down.

Regards

 

[30csl]

Hey Tim,

thats very helpful.

I will check the splines - hopefully they will match up otherwise thats a real pain.

I guess as the box is a bit shorter the column will end up nearer the manifold - I am running a stock manifold but hope to get a six branch in the future as the manual box should give more clearance.

Where did you get your manifold made?

Regards,

Rohan

 

[timt]

Rohan, I got my manifold from Fritzs Bits, very similar in design to one offered by Munich Legends but I got more information, feed back and "service" from Richard at FB so went there. It fitted and the quality looks reasonable ... the shop where the car is tend to use Simpsons Race Exhaust as the standard to aspire to and it isn't at that level. FB have a pattern so can get them produced to order, and at a price I could afford.

Comments - the exhaust is designed to clear a power steering box so in my case the lower column just fouled as stated earlier, we had to cut and re-position 5 and 6 primaries (both I think) but it wasn't a major mod. 1,2 and 3 secondary drops down to run under the cross member, and returns to join the secondary for 4, 5 and 6, then both secondaries follow the normal route. Primary lengths are thus a compromise and while most are approximately equalised, 4 is approximately double to make the clearance and synch the pulse. Will have to see how it works. I can e-mail some pictures if you want them - easier than posting! Sorry for the shorthand but tried to keep it reasonably brief.

Some time ago I saw an Australian manifold offered on e-Bay - looked "sensible" and ran all the primaries forward then down and back so a different approach. Was possibly less compromised on the lengths but could set other challenges. I can't find the ad now and regretably can't remember who the company was, I was already committed to FB. If any ANZ readers know of them, please let us know.

Piers Reid's car has a similar set up - primaries forward. I think its possibly mild steel made up some time ago ... if he is on this board he can correct me or confirm; he may also have the car at Gaydon. Tony Stockman in the eighties was following this route for himself and I've no idea whehter he went to market or not!

RHD CSLs are still CSLs but the canted engine causes a serious headache for the exhaust, oh that it was easy to stand the block up and drop it down a couple of inches ... ho hum, just a wish reinforced after seeeing the Group 5 car the other day in Sussex.

 

[30csl]

Right i had someone measure the column, it is 44cm they say. So I have to add 9.3 cm according to DJ's measurements.

Sounds like a lot but I guess the column travels a longer path and the box input is further away.

Anyone know if this sounds right?

Regards

Rohan

 

[DJSimca]

hm :?:

Sounds like a lot.
Are there differences between RHD and LHD steering columns (your original question Rohan)?

The one I measured is obviously from a LHD

 

[30csl]

Yes it seems a lot but when looking at it on a ruler it does seem viable.

I think the positioning must be the same for LHD and RHD but am not sure.

The manual box looks about 5 cm shorter and the angle too it therefore shallower needing a longer sterring column.

Timt - any idea if this sounds right?

Regards,

Rohan

 

[Paul02]

Rohan
Excuse my ignorance , are you doing away with power steering and going to non power steering . If so whats the reason.
Cheers Paul

 

[timt]

Rohan, sorry, no help on this one ... my car is 80 miles away, the lower column was acquired for me along with the first manual box that's since been binned. It was supposed to have come from a 2500 or 2800 but I'm not sure, it's not a cut and shut but an "original".

Purely from a "logical" perspective and reasonableness the additional length is going to be in the order of 10 cm / 4 inches as that's the approximate length of the extended power unit and then the fractional increase due to the angular change - I think you'll find it's slightly more acute or in other words it increases the deviation from the straight line but that's only going from memory.

Regards

 

[30csl]

Hi Tim, that tallies with what DJSimca has given and the measurement of this column so I'm ready to get it altered!

Cheers,

Rohan

 

[gazzol]

As a matter of interest I bought a tubular manifold from Fritz's Bits. I have power steering and it fouled the steering shaft so I'm a bit dubious as to weather this problem arises due to the type of steering at all (and they swore blind they'd never encountered a problem like this before!!!) my solution (I was in a rush) was to scallop a piece out of the manifold and let a new piece of stainless in. Not the most elegant solution I know but it was Saturday and I was at a show on Sunday and didn't want to put the old manifold back on.

 

[timt]

So, it seems that maybe Fritzs manifolds can be tight to the steering column whether a power or manual configuration.

Gazzol, I haven't talked to them yet ... my shop saw it as a very minor reprofiling job (at my cost of course) that was probably less hassle than returning and getting another ... time, aggravation, etc. But a concern I have to take up with Fritzs' principal.

What sort of improvement have you seen? ie, does it feel significantly or only marginally improved or have you even got specific figures? Are you using the whole of Fritzs system or just the manifold? I'm asking as I still have some time to go before the engine can be run so very interested.

Regards

 

[gazzol]

So, it seems that maybe Fritzs manifolds can be tight to the steering column whether a power or manual configuration.

Gazzol, I haven't talked to them yet ... my shop saw it as a very minor reprofiling job (at my cost of course) that was probably less hassle than returning and getting another ... time, aggravation, etc. But a concern I have to take up with Fritzs' principal.

What sort of improvement have you seen? ie, does it feel significantly or only marginally improved or have you even got specific figures? Are you using the whole of Fritzs system or just the manifold? I'm asking as I still have some time to go before the engine can be run so very interested.

Regards

Hi I'm using just the manifold ATM. To be honest Tim I can't say that I noticed any difference in acceleration but the engine does seem a little more willing to rev beyond the 5200 rpm where it produced peak power before (E12 M535 lump), that said IF its picked up 10 BHP would you really notice a 5% gain? I think not. In an ideal world I'd have done before and after power runs on the dyno but at £35 a go its a vain waste of £70. In my case I wouldn't really want to put my car under the strain of a dyno run as the motor is deffinately showing its age as its developed an alarming rattle under very light load just above 3000 rpm (under heavier load the rattle goes) which sounds like piston slap due to worn piston/bores and to confirm this it blue smokes under acceleration if I take it above 4000 rpm in higher gears. So I'm about to build a new motor which will include plenty of trick bits, just got to get this round the mrs. LOL

 

[timt]

Thanks Gazzol. I would agree that an increase in the order of 5% would be barely noticeable but would have hoped for more than that, say 10%+. But on a "tired" engine and possibly a restrictive system downstream ... who knows. Good luck with the updates, once you've got past the planning and prep stage "at home"! I'm currently grappling with trying to source and fit modern injectors but with minimum mods to the manifold bar possibly a little light relieving of the pockets ... part of a change to the overall induction. Ho hum, more money and sadly BMW's soon to be redundant parts bin (ie, the F1 element) is unlikely to have any bits useful to us!

Regards

 

[30csl]

Looks like I will need a different lower joint for the steering column. Any ideas people?
Why can't things just be straightforward!?

 

[timt]

Rohan, I'll e-mail you.

Regards

 

[30csl]

Hey guys,

At last im about to tackle the steering box - i move slow!

Gary - you still happy with the manifold? I have the head off of the car now and was wondering about getting the Fritz system while im in this deep??

Tim - how is yours coming along?

Regards,

Rohan

 

[fredp]

Rohan

I've just caught up with this thread and am in the process of getting headers for my 3.0CSi. The Australian company who supplies them is

http://www.motorsportsdownunder.com/

They are made to clear all the steering bits on the RHD cars.

Fred