Rocker drain holes - to drill or not to drill more...

[Stevehose]

I am step by step going through my car and waxoiling as many cavities as possible - next stop, the rockers. I took the covers off and now can see the 2 drain holes - one in front and one in back - but they seem high up and am thinking that water would settle below them after coming past the window trim. Would it be a good idea to drill additional holes lower in the rockers (examples shown by white circles in pics - front and middle of rocker pictured) after spraying as much waxoil treatment as possible into them? I am not sure what if any structure is directly behind them or if there is a cavity that would benefit from this drainage but it seems by peering into the holes I can see area beneath. My rockers are dry and 99% rust free and I want to try and keep them that way as long as possible (besides not driving in the rain but I live in New Orleans and a freak shower is always possible).

1. Ideas?
2. Additional locations to drill and/or spray into?
3. Should I seal off the fronts of the rockers from the wheel well to keep water from going into them that way?

Restoration experts please advise. Thanks.

 

[Sven]

1. Re-route drain hoses that bottom out in the rockers: one from 'C' pillar roundel and one from the front sunroof drains. That leaves the side windows as the only real source of water intrusion.

2. The rockers piece has 2 or 3 weep holes along the bottom. In Rocker1 you can see the protruding crimp at the bottom seam (in the new black piece). Make sure these are kept open (after cavity waxing). They easily plug up with dirt. I would not drill any new holes.

The Rocker2 and Rocker3 photos show what is behind the rocker panel. You do not want to drill into the bottom angled flange of the structural beam (zig-zap piece). There are some holes accessed from the inside (behind the side carpet) where you could possibly get a spray wand into. I would think that you would want to spray on both sides of the beam.

3. This is very difficult to seal. You do not want to seal at the bottom since then wheel spray could still get in from higher up. There are two secondary metal shields with a rubber gasket against the inside of the fender that may need replacing. The lower one is screwed in and the smaller upper piece may be welded. I plan on fabricating similar pieces (from replacement panels) that can be bolted on and easily removed for cleaning. You can see two of the lower studs welded onto the front of the 'A' pillar in Rocker2.

 

[Stevehose]

Sven,

1. I don't have a sunroof, is it possible to access the roundel drain to reroute it without quarter panel removal? Is it accessible from the rear window interior panel (like when you go to replace a window motor)?

2. I will try to blast through any holes from under the carpet area into the rocker and keep the bottom drainage open thereafter.

3. My metal shields are in tact and under a heavy undercoating from the original owner/dealer so I am not going to mess with them - I poked a hole through the coating at the top and blasted wax into the back of the fender and resealed them - I have no bubbling or any other indication that they are rusting (too much). You can see some evidence of the waxoil from this in my rocker2 pic. For the bottoms I will wax heavily and leave the seams open.

So even though there are 2 large drain holes in the rocker, anything else weeps out through the seams in the bottoms? As long as these are kept open there is no need for additional holes?

How about drilling some wand access holes into the rockers from the wheel wells in order to blast paralel into the rockers instead of perpendicular? Then plugging them back up?

Thanks much for your pics and input.

1. Re-route drain hoses that bottom out in the rockers: one from 'C' pillar roundel and one from the front sunroof drains. That leaves the side windows as the only real source of water intrusion.

2. The rockers piece has 2 or 3 weep holes along the bottom. In Rocker1 you can see the protruding crimp at the bottom seam (in the new black piece). Make sure these are kept open (after cavity waxing). They easily plug up with dirt. I would not drill any new holes.

The Rocker2 and Rocker3 photos show what is behind the rocker panel. You do not want to drill into the bottom angled flange of the structural beam (zig-zap piece). There are some holes accessed from the inside (behind the side carpet) where you could possibly get a spray wand into. I would think that you would want to spray on both sides of the beam.

3. This is very difficult to seal. You do not want to seal at the bottom since then wheel spray could still get in from higher up. There are two secondary metal shields with a rubber gasket against the inside of the fender that may need replacing. The lower one is screwed in and the smaller upper piece may be welded. I plan on fabricating similar pieces (from replacement panels) that can be bolted on and easily removed for cleaning. You can see two of the lower studs welded onto the front of the 'A' pillar in Rocker2.

 

[Sven]

Steve, here are some more pics. I do not think access from the wheel wells straight in is practical. At the front the base leg of the 'A' pillar is in the way. At the rear similar. The "RearOpen" and "RearCovered" photos should give you an idea of what is there. I think access from the backside is good, and if you have any holes in the outside of the rockers then use those as well. The "RockerInside" photo shows the inside of the rocker from the cabin side. You can see two holes at the front and one smaller hole at the rear. I suppose you could drill another hole along here for better access. The space between this inside rocker piece and the backside of the beam is wide open front to back. The "RockerCovered" photo shows a hole just to the left of the sticker that you may be able to get to.

The "C-Drain" photo shows the two drain hoses at the rear wheel well. You should be able to see/feel the black 'C' roundel drain hose from the rear inside panel opening. The rear sunroof drain hose daylights out through a hole in trunk floor. I have seen a quick fix where the 'C' hose is inserted through a hole drilled in the wheel arch and then caulked. A welded through-pipe would be better with the hose trimmed and clamped to the top of the through-pipe.

The weeping at the pinch joint at the base of the rockers is only at those 2 or 3 open gap locations and not along the entire length of the seam.

 

[Stevehose]

So how would I access the middle space between the zig-zag piece and the outer rocker cover (the one you have replaced)?

What about a couple of holes at the same height like the ones currently located at the front and back (one of which is in my original rocker2 pic) equidistant in the middle to shoot in that way?

This would allow spray pretty much along the front of the zig zag and the rocker cover, then get the back of the zig zag from the interior side. Then let it all ooze out while making sure it's clear for future draining. Looks like I am going to need more waxoil! thanks.

Steve, here are some more pics. I do not think access from the wheel wells straight in is practical. At the front the base leg of the 'A' pillar is in the way. At the rear similar. The "RearOpen" and "RearCovered" photos should give you an idea of what is there. I think access from the backside is good, and if you have any holes in the outside of the rockers then use those as well. The "RockerInside" photo shows the inside of the rocker from the cabin side. You can see two holes at the front and one smaller hole at the rear. I suppose you could drill another hole along here for better access. The space between this inside rocker piece and the backside of the beam is wide open front to back. The "RockerCovered" photo shows a hole just to the left of the sticker that you may be able to get to.

The "C-Drain" photo shows the two drain hoses at the rear wheel well. You should be able to see/feel the black 'C' roundel drain hose from the rear inside panel opening. The rear sunroof drain hose daylights out through a hole in trunk floor. I have seen a quick fix where the 'C' hose is inserted through a hole drilled in the wheel arch and then caulked. A welded through-pipe would be better with the hose trimmed and clamped to the top of the through-pipe.

The weeping at the pinch joint at the base of the rockers is only at those 2 or 3 open gap locations and not along the entire length of the seam.

 

[Sven]

I suppose you could add more holes, higher up, if you could find a way to plug them afterwards. A blind rubber plug? Note, however, that since you have the fenders and rear quarter panels in place that the section in front of and behind the door opening will have two layers of sheet metal to drill through (fender + rocker cover). So the holes would need to be under the door opening only.

 

[pmansson]

All this is very well, but the fact remains: these cars do not support water.
If ever they do get soaked, I leave them out on a sunny, windy day to dry out properly.
I never wash them with water, just the pink cleaning product from Maguirars. It sprays out on the body, and I use a microfibre "napkin" to wipe and dry with.
I think Murray taught me this several years ago.

 

[Stevehose]

Agreed, I use a CA duster and damp towel to wash mine, this is an attempt at some protection if I get caught in a shower (inevitable at some point here) and because my climate is very humid and the rockers seem to take the brunt of the water drainage so why not try and get some kind of barrier on them if possible get some better drainage/air circulation working. Such a poor design!

All this is very well, but the fact remains: these cars do not support water.
If ever they do get soaked, I leave them out on a sunny, windy day to dry out properly.
I never wash them with water, just the pink cleaning product from Maguirars. It sprays out on the body, and I use a microfibre "napkin" to wipe and dry with.
I think Murray taught me this several years ago.

 

[Phemisg]

I used a long pipe with sprayer on end and went into cavities from inside the car - below A-pillar and rear quarter window. One of those pictures shows a major culprit - the drain tube!! I routed mine through a hole in the wheel well.

 

[Stevehose]

How did you get to the drain tube - is it accessible from the rear window panel? I havent taken mine off yet to check.

I used a long pipe with sprayer on end and went into cavities from inside the car - below A-pillar and rear quarter window. One of those pictures shows a major culprit - the drain tube!! I routed mine through a hole in the wheel well.

 

[Phemisg]

I believe it is if you take out window track, etc. I think that's how I did it. I had quarter panels replaced, and that would be a good time, but I think it was from inside. Original tube just ended in rocker cavity. Drill a hole, push tube through and seal both sides.

 

[Stevehose]

I'd rather have a root canal than do that again! Will investgate and post pics of entire "operation rocker treatment" in the coming days.

take out window track, etc.

 

[Stevehose]

Ok rear window unit out and indeed was able to remove the crusty drain tube - will get pvc replacement and route through the wheel well (with a metal fitting) - for both sides. Once I am finished with this entire waxoiling/drain rerouting exercise I will post pics for those that are interested. Also a good time to clean and grease the window tracks and see what other side projects crop up as a result of this mission.

I believe it is if you take out window track, etc. I think that's how I did it. I had quarter panels replaced, and that would be a good time, but I think it was from inside. Original tube just ended in rocker cavity. Drill a hole, push tube through and seal both sides.

 

[Phemisg]

Also check the two window travel limit rubber bumpers - they get flattened and worn out. Be sure to check window operation before replacing panel. Get the Waxoil or whatever back over and around the rear wheel arches. Make sure there is some drain provision in the rockers - you will still have water in there over time.

At least my Dental Insurance Plan covers root canals.

 

[Stevehose]

Yes I greased the tracks and gears, tightened/adjusted the window stops, tightened the 3 clutch box nuts (only accessible by carefully bending and reaching in between the glass and the frame - good design there) and tightened the electrical connections. Windows go up and down with speed and ease now. Once you've done the window removal thing a few times it's not that bad - beats reaching for a bolt against a blazing hot running engine. I waxoiled every part I could reach in the rockers and rear wheel cavities under the windows - all is reassembled except for the rocker covers which I plan on repainting. Pics forthcoming.

Also check the two window travel limit rubber bumpers - they get flattened and worn out. Be sure to check window operation before replacing panel. Get the Waxoil or whatever back over and around the rear wheel arches. Make sure there is some drain provision in the rockers - you will still have water in there over time.

At least my Dental Insurance Plan covers root canals.