Rolling Fenders

CSLCOUPE said:
if car is already painted, this is a easier way of doing it without paint damage.....
tire rack rents them,,,,,,,

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It really depends more on how far you go and how much it distorts the metal --- believe me I have seen several fender roller jobs that needed paint work and even plastic work after being rolled. The way I did it I only have to touch up the lip that faces down and now also faces into the tire, I will get away with doing it with a touch up brush which is the beauty of owning a solid color car versus metallic paint. ~ John Buchtenkirch
 
John, great results.

CSL, that is the heavy duty roller we used. We went slow so as to not bend the fender itself.

Chris
 
Thanks for those pics John (and others too). Seeing them does help in understanding how it works.

I have 16" wheels and the problem with the wheels catching without spacers. Also get scraping on my inner covers when I make a turn with max wheel turn.

Adding Carls camber plates now as part of my underside cleanup and hope it will help.

Have the CSL chrome on so rolling is not a good option.

Rgds,

Johan
 
johanaxelson said:
Thanks for those pics John (and others too). Seeing them does help in understanding how it works.

I have 16" wheels and the problem with the wheels catching without spacers. Also get scraping on my inner covers when I make a turn with max wheel turn.

Adding Carls camber plates now as part of my underside cleanup and hope it will help.

Have the CSL chrome on so rolling is not a good option.

Rgds,

Johan
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Actually you could remove the wheel opening moldings, then roll up the edge of the fender and then trim back the inside edge of the wheel opening molding with tin snips. You still have a ¼” of lip you could use to attach the molding with counter-sunk stainless pop rivets in the 10 o’clock to 2 o’clock area, the very front and very rear don’t have to be rolled so stock attachment hardware could be used there. Whether that slight deviation from stock would affect the value of a CSL is pretty arguable and the modification is your call at the end of the day. I can never figure out why BMW felt compelled to add those moldings to a car they had gone thru pains to lighten ? ~ John Buchtenkirch
 
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David said:
That looks pretty interesting. Have you tried it ? My paint wouldnt survive the other tools Ive seen.
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Tool works good but,,,
depends on how good the wheel openings were prepped for paint. Slow and not much pressure and a few passes. And as hbchris said, since theres no frt fender wells, you can push them out.
 
John Buchtenkirch said:
Actually you could remove the wheel opening moldings, then roll up the edge of the fender and then trim back the inside edge of the wheel opening molding with tin snips. You still have a ¼” of lip you could use to attach the molding with counter-sunk stainless pop rivets in the 10 o’clock to 2 o’clock area, the very front and very rear don’t have to be rolled so stock attachment hardware could be used there. Whether that slight deviation from stock would affect the value of a CSL is pretty arguable and the modification is your call at the end of the day. I can never figure out why BMW felt compelled to add those moldings to a car they had gone thru pains to lighten ? ~ John Buchtenkirch
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Thanks John,

that is a good tip and I am sure it would work.

I do not have a CSL though, just a CSi bit have added the chrome arches to it.

But are the protective moldings only for the CSL, mine were there when I bought the car.

Johan
 
The extra tenth on each side.

I clamped my rims directly on the bed of my Index mill and milled .100 or a tenth of an inch off the mounting faces. Doing it on a lathe might make more sense but my lathe just isn’t big enough. I then had to grind an eight inch off the spindles so I punched a 5/8” hole in a piece of scrap sheet so I could use it as a shield to keep grinding grit out of the wheel bearings. I also had to shorten the grease caps (so they wouldn’t push the center caps out of the wheels) so rather than cut & weld them I just hammered the corners over on themselves. Two washers under a stock lug nut was my gauge for grinding a tenth off the wheel studs, I just ground till I hit the lug face.

I bent an acid brush into a J to get paint up in the wheel lips. The original color finish on the face of the wheel lips held up surprisingly well with all the bending & rolling but the less than wonderful refinish paint on top of the original was flaking off so I used POR 15 clear to glue the edges of that down. I hate doing body work on something that’s already painted but this job turned out surprising well. Whether I really needed to shave off that extra tenth of an inch I’ll never know, rolling the lips was probably enough but it just cost me some time and is hopefully a little extra insurance that I don’t have to replace any more slashed tires.

It’s a shame no one makes lower control arms that are a ¼” to ½” shorter, that would be the real answer for the too wide front track and there’s plenty of room to move the strut inward on the top, even with the large diameter stock springs. ~ John Buchtenkirch
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Some final thoughts and photos, I was only allowed five photos on the previous post. Not all fender rolling jobs are the same, I saw Chuck Moss’s beautiful green coupe last Sunday and his fender lips are completely different from mine (see drawing). I believe his were done with a fender roller because they were done by just further bending of the stock fender lip corner. Which way is the best only time will tell but hopefully both will work fine. Chuck’s front track appears a bit wider than mine (maybe it just looks that way because of wider tires ?) but I believe he is getting away with it because his coupe is also a bit higher in the front. There are so many variables to this puzzle of successfully fitting 16” tires under the front of our coupes, rim width and most important offset, tire width, diameter and corner style (round verses square), how much is the car actually lowered as measured from the wheel lip to the center of the spindle, how tight are the fender lips actually rolled, camber settings and finally the road condition or lack of conditions where you drive. Consider that you may follow what someone else has done with success on their coupe and be off on only one thing and end up with a shredded tire :cry:.

I still believe a slightly shorter lower control arm that allowed the strut to be moved slightly towards the center of the car would be the best solution. The problem is the best place to cut the control arm is just inside the lower ball joint and that would be a hard place to fish-plate. I will not weld forged suspension parts unless I can fish-plate them. Also the ball joint & Z-bar bushing would have to be removed & replaced, I’m not even sure it’s possible. Shortening it between the Z-bar bushing and the inner bushing would be easy but then you have to shorten the Z-bar too. Maybe fabricating one from thick sheet metal like on later cars might be the answer. ~ John Buchtenkirch
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John,

Mine is like Chuck's. Shortening the control arm will increase camber, not what you want. The fixed camber plates pull the top in and add 0.5-0.7 negative camber which helps.
 
HB Chris said:
John,

Mine is like Chuck's. Shortening the control arm will increase camber, not what you want. The fixed camber plates pull the top in and add 0.5-0.7 negative camber which helps.
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Chris, what I was talking about is moving the whole strut towards the center of the car, in other words both the top & bottom. The reason I posted the photo of the bottom is that’s the tricky part of the job, the top can be done & has been done with simple plates. Even with the stock spring the top has a good inch of clearance (see photo) so moving the top in is no problem. Moving the top in without the bottom is somewhat limited because eventually the camber becomes so negative the tires wear funny. I’m just tossing ideas out there that people can build on or present an even better idea. ~ John Buchtenkirch
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Preventing tires being cut----

My fender lips on BLUMAX were rolled 10 to 2 about 32 years ago while still running 14" 205/70-14 Michelin long before fitting Alpinas--no issues once the fender lips were rolled.

Then 16 years ago I had Carl Nelson install his spring set along with fresh Bilstein HD's and--no issues--I had long ago removed the height raising spacers. Have since fitted 16" staggered Alpinas about 9 years ago--fitted first with Bridgstone Potenzas 205/55-16 front and 225/50-16 rear--again without any issues--and have just fitted new rubber--Continental Extreme Contact DW's of the same sizes--clearances are close but again no issues. Perhaps there are other things going on with other E-9's that enter into the fitment/clearance problems.

My suggestion--rather than trying to re-invent a new solution to solve this long standing problem--as they were successfully solved many years ago--just call Carl Nelson at 800-644-8184 and ask him for the proven formula to avoiding rubbing and cutting front tires on your E-9.
 
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blumax said:
My fender lips on BLUMAX were rolled 10 to 2 about 32 years ago while still running 14" 205/70-14 Michelin long before fitting Alpinas--no issues once the fender lips were rolled.

Then 16 years ago I had Carl Nelson install his spring set along with fresh Bilstein HD's and--no issues--I had long ago removed the height raising spacers. Have since fitted 16" staggered Alpinas about 9 years ago--fitted first with Bridgstone Potenzas 205/55-16 front and 225/50-16 rear--again without any issues--and have just fitted new rubber--Continental Extreme Contact DW's of the same sizes--clearances are close but again no issues. Perhaps there are other things going on with other E-9's that enter into the fitment/clearance problems.

My suggestion--rather than trying to re-invent a new solution to solve this long standing problem--as they were successfully solved many years ago--just call Carl Nelson at 800-644-8184 and ask him for the proven formula to avoiding rubbing and cutting front tires on your E-9.
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Murray, I think your 100% right, rolling the lips is enough particularly the way I did it (drawing in post #30) where the edge is up and almost touching the flair. Even if my tires occasionally touch now there is no edge to hook them. Being of German heritage I have been accused a few times of over thinking, over designing and over building things all while overlooking the obvious. ~ John Buchtenkirch
 
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