. The road in France that can collect solar energy has a pay off point 400 years from now....too bad it is broken. Maybe 2.0 will be better.
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Solar Roads
- Thread starter Nicad
- Start date
jmackro
Well-Known Member
I'm impressed that they only wasted $5.2M on this silly idea. Here in California, the environmental impact report would have cost $5.2M.
And they would have gone %3500 over budget on the build and then found out the panels were defective because they took the lowest bidder....
Any government project (or joint project with the private sector) that fails gets lots of attention. Rightfully so. But it is also important to reflect on why governments continue to be involved in risky, new product ventures and why it is important to us that they continue to do so.
My example below is not about a solar road in France, but the concept is the same.
(I can't link to the article since it was in my daily email feed from David Leonhardt of the NYT)
My example below is not about a solar road in France, but the concept is the same.
(I can't link to the article since it was in my daily email feed from David Leonhardt of the NYT)
Uncle Sam as entrepreneur |
Before Covid-19, the record for the fastest vaccine development — for mumps — was four years. Most vaccines have required more than a decade of research and experimentation. |
Yet yesterday morning, less than a year after the discovery of Covid, a critical care nurse in Queens named Sandra Lindsay became the first American to participate in the mass vaccination program for the coronavirus. “I feel like healing is coming,” she said afterward. |
It is a stunning story of scientific success. |
It also fits a pattern that stretches back decades: Many of the biggest technological breakthroughs in American history have not sprung from the private sector. They have instead been the result of collaboration between private companies and the federal government. |
The Defense Department, after all, built the internet. Government research and development also led to transistors, silicon chips, radar, jet airplanes, satellites, artificial limbs, cortisone, flat screens and much more, as the M.I.T. economists Jonathan Gruber and Simon Johnson point out in their recent book, “Jump-Starting America.” |
“Almost everything about your computer today — and the way you use it — stems from government funding at the early stages,” Gruber and Johnson write. |
Why? Because basic research is usually too uncertain and expensive for any one company to afford. Often, it isn’t even clear which future products the research may create. No kitchen appliance company ever would have thought to do the military research that led to the microwave oven. |
With Covid, the vaccines from both Pfizer and Moderna rely on years of government-funded (and sometimes government-conducted) research into viral proteins and genetics. That research, Kaiser Health News explains, is “the essential ingredient in the rapid development of vaccines in response to Covid-19.” |
The federal help accelerated this year. The government funded Moderna’s work in recent months, as part of the billions of dollars it spent to make possible a record-breaking vaccine, The Atlantic’s Ed Yong writes. And while Pfizer turned down direct federal funding, it asked for the government’s help in procuring supplies and also signed a $1.95 billion “advance purchase” agreement with Washington. |
As my colleague Neil Irwin has written: “The nine months of the pandemic have shown that in a modern state, capitalism can save the day — but only when the government exercises its power to guide the economy and act as the ultimate absorber of risk. The lesson of Covid capitalism is that big business needs big government, and vice versa.” |
What are the lessons for the post-Covid world? Solving the biggest challenges, like climate change, will almost certainly depend on a combination of public-sector funding and private-sector ingenuity. |
Yet as Gruber and Johnson note, federal funding of science has become a smaller part of the U.S. economy than it used to be. Which means the Covid vaccine is both an inspiring success and something of an exception. “On its current course,” the economists write, “America seems unlikely to continue its dominance of invention.” |
Uncle Sam is also an enabler, subsidizing the corn, sugar, soy, edible oils, and other big Ag that has led to poor health (remember the food Pyramid?), comorbidities, and therefore a higher risk of dying from covid. We treat the symptom, not the problem because it is more profitable to do so in the short term. These companies lobby the govt to defray their costs so it's not always altruistic.
tmh
Well-Known Member
Give credit where it is due... Donald Trump. It is an amazing accomplishment. I am simply giving credit where it is due, not wanting to inflame the haters.
I'm not a hater but he doesn't deserve credit.
Trump can't find his ass with both hands. He's a natural born idiot.
I don't remember who said, "tell someone what to do, not how to do it, and they will surprise you with their genius". Maybe Twain....A manager that continues to hover and push to get results, doesn't really deserve credit for the creative endeavor. Only the good folks that made it happen...either through inspiration, or perspiration. Not those watching and needing to check it off a list of things to accomplish. Perhaps, that defines politics..
George Patton
A quote by George S. Patton Jr.
Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results.
www.goodreads.com
Ah, yes...makes sense. Thanks, Dick.
No US government agency deserves significant credit for the vaccine. The late funding helped some of the smaller players but no major pathways were opened.
All of these offshoot vaccines were well under development for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) well before SARS-CoV-2 aka COVID-19 arrived. This is the primary reason why so many organizations indicated very early in the pandemic that they would have something out in 12-18 months.
Undue pressure on the vaccine trial requirements doesn’t help confidence. I think they landed on a good solution overall.
All of these offshoot vaccines were well under development for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) well before SARS-CoV-2 aka COVID-19 arrived. This is the primary reason why so many organizations indicated very early in the pandemic that they would have something out in 12-18 months.
Undue pressure on the vaccine trial requirements doesn’t help confidence. I think they landed on a good solution overall.
tmh
Well-Known Member
I am simply making an observation related to this thread. Developing a vaccine, clearing the regulatory approval path with FDA approval, approving funding, ramping up production, planning and executing distribution are all monumental accomplishments. All of the medical community and liberal media scoffed at Trump suggesting this could get this accomplished before the end of 2020. I watched a montage of all the clips from the medical community, scientists and liberal media last night stating it couldn't be done. This allows people to get back to work and businesses and the general public to get on with their lives. Who do you think made this happen? If it had been Obama he would have been heralded and praised. Give credit where it is due and be pleased that someone had the ability to get this pushed through such a monstrous bureaucracy. How long does it take to get approval to build a house in California, or build a road nonetheless?
He had nothing to do with any of the planning or execution. He politicized the entire process, spent most his time dividing the country and insulting scientist and in fact, science itself. He had no strategy for dealing with the increasing tole of the virus and we now have 300k dead americans because of ineptness, lack of intelligence and his seemingly bottomless pettiness. And now he assaults and tears at the fabric of democracy and the very tenants this country was founded on and yet you still want to support him. I suppose you would say the untold suffering and 300k dead Americans are the fault of the media?
Okay folks - back on topic!
I think that with current solar technology, solar
roads are a terrible idea. Then again, I grew up in Chicago and bent wheels in interstate potholes.
IMO, Solar train tracks make way more sense in Europe, and you have the means to transfer the power to the trains running above it. You could even have a dedicated train car, system, or stand-alone machine to wash the grease off the panels. Unlike roads, you don’t need to worry about wear from tires, or slippery conditions. Also, a standard 39” commercial
solar panel would fit between all European track widths. Unlike public roads, the tracks themselves are private property (in the US) and policed accordingly.
I didn’t get the aggregate KM’a but that is certainly equivalent to a few solar farms. The largest farm in the US is 1.7M panels, putting out 580 megawatts. That would be about 3,300 km’s of track.
I think that with current solar technology, solar
roads are a terrible idea. Then again, I grew up in Chicago and bent wheels in interstate potholes.
IMO, Solar train tracks make way more sense in Europe, and you have the means to transfer the power to the trains running above it. You could even have a dedicated train car, system, or stand-alone machine to wash the grease off the panels. Unlike roads, you don’t need to worry about wear from tires, or slippery conditions. Also, a standard 39” commercial
solar panel would fit between all European track widths. Unlike public roads, the tracks themselves are private property (in the US) and policed accordingly.
I didn’t get the aggregate KM’a but that is certainly equivalent to a few solar farms. The largest farm in the US is 1.7M panels, putting out 580 megawatts. That would be about 3,300 km’s of track.
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In europe trains dump their "human waste" between the tracks. Not a pretty sight and maybe not ideal for efficiency.
I've put 17 panels, 5kW, on my garage. It balances nicely the co2 factory ( e9) that is living below the panels.
The application in roads, roofs or other structures actually makes more sense when you think about population density. Here in Netherlands there simply is no 'free' space left. (France does have bit more space) We have no empty plains or deserts. Building solar farms here means that you have to chop a forest, move a village or push the cows off their pastures.
We've actually tried solar panels in bycicle roads; same outcome. But I'm all for innovation, and yes the first trials are just that; trails. You learn that 50% of the choices made were wrong, 25% did not actually make any difference and 25 % made sense. Onwards with version 2 I'd say.
I've put 17 panels, 5kW, on my garage. It balances nicely the co2 factory ( e9) that is living below the panels.
The application in roads, roofs or other structures actually makes more sense when you think about population density. Here in Netherlands there simply is no 'free' space left. (France does have bit more space) We have no empty plains or deserts. Building solar farms here means that you have to chop a forest, move a village or push the cows off their pastures.
We've actually tried solar panels in bycicle roads; same outcome. But I'm all for innovation, and yes the first trials are just that; trails. You learn that 50% of the choices made were wrong, 25% did not actually make any difference and 25 % made sense. Onwards with version 2 I'd say.