Starter Issue - Dying Breath?

TG-2002-320i-328ci

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My starter has had the occasional "slippage" when turning over, but usually will engage on a second try.

It's now become the 3rd - 4th try. I get a whirring sound as if the starter is turning but perhaps the solenoid isn't engaging?

It's been a few decades since I've had a starter on a car go bad, so I cannot recall how they let you know death is near other than outright failure.

Thanks!
 
Can’t beat this price, less than $70 shipped, SR-441X new compatible starter with the smaller case.


C47D5A89-E18B-4C24-B91B-D0D8363E5F3F.jpeg
 
Thanks!

That is a deal. So far, my research so far tells me that those SR-441Xs are better than Bosch OEM (which AutohausAZ has for $115+Core).

At that price, I'm just going to replace it. Here in AZ, I'm nearing "summer mothball" time for my CSi, and I have a punch list of items I want to service/replace while it is too hot for motoring (93F today).
 
Thanks!

That is a deal. So far, my research so far tells me that those SR-441Xs are better than Bosch OEM (which AutohausAZ has for $115+Core).

At that price, I'm just going to replace it. Here in AZ, I'm nearing "summer mothball" time for my CSi, and I have a punch list of items I want to service/replace while it is too hot for motoring (93F today).
And no core charge or return either.
 
Just a side thought - Have you tried a brand new battery. I had dodgy starter motor behaviour which was like you described, but turned out it was my dying battery. These M30 engines need good battery cranking wattage.
Thanks; just put in a brand new Interstate AGM a few weeks ago (previous lead acid Interstate lasted 7 Arizona summers - amazing).
 
I think the model hb Chris shared is better on many levels. It's smaller and stronger, spins faster, and more torque. I switched last year and it noticably spins the engine faster.
 
Does not matter, no more stock and no idea if they will be getting any more Don't use a bad starter too much, it can damage the ring gear and that is NLA for sure.

Thanks, Rick
Before replacing the starter, it might be prudent to remove and inspect it. Perhaps the pinion gear is worn and poorly meshing with the ring gear. Electrical shops that specialize in starter service might be able to replace that starter pinion gear.

Unfortunately, after many years of service, a few ring gear teeth may have significant wear making it only seem like the problem is with the starter.


https://e9coupe.com/forum/threads/weird-starter-noise.16071/

starter+05a1372853058.jpg


2011-10-30_170020_1.jpg
 
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Before replacing the starter, it might be prudent to remove and inspect it. Perhaps the pinion gear is worn and poorly meshing with the ring gear. Electrical shops that specialize in starter service might be able to replace that starter pinion gear.

Unfortunately, after many years of service, a few ring gear teeth may have significant wear making it only seem like the problem is with the starter.


https://e9coupe.com/forum/threads/weird-starter-noise.16071/

starter+05a1372853058.jpg


2011-10-30_170020_1.jpg
Yikes. Sure hope not, but that is entirely possible.
 
Went out to drive the car today and the starter didn't engage/turn the engine at all. Same odd spinning sound. Doesn't sound like metal-on-metal (pinion/ring gear damage) - I suspect that the solenoid isn't doing it's job.

Anyway, I made a brief video so I could share the delightful sound of a Sunday drive ruined.


Anyone care to make an audible diagnosis?
 
I'm a little fuzzy on some details, but my first experience was in about '73 when I lost my keys (or someone stole them) while I was surfing on the North Shore, at Pipe. My '64 bug had only three wires to the ignition switch. I vaguely knew that one was power (obvious, the big red one, exciting sparks when grounded), one went to the ignition, and the other to the starter. Now the curious thing to me at the time, reading my Clymer manual there in the Ehukai Beach Park parking lot, was that the wire to the starter didn't actually go to the starter, but to the solenoid. It activated the solenoid causing it to lever the pinion into the ring gear, which grounded the starter and cranked the engine. I was mildly surprised, but hey, only three wires, let's do it... short story, started right up and kept running as long as big red and ignition stayed together. Got home and used that technique for some time thereafter. The scenario later repeated years later when the keys to my '67 Squareback were stolen at Tonggs... I eventually fitted a toggle switch from an abandoned Bus, and a pushbutton starter switch bought elsewhere. One needs, one must. No one successfully stole either car, but I caught later one St. Louis High School punk trying to steal the Bug, and three guys together didn't get the Squareback push started though they had the ignition on. But I digress...

Recently my seldom-driven CS will loudly *click" when I turn the key, but not spin the starter. Several tries later, it engages and cranks the engine just fine, and it will start, as long as I've primed the carbs with a ounce of two of gas beforehand. If not, 20 seconds of cranking (I think too long, may overheat the starter) ensues before enough gas is sucked from the tank, fills the float bowls, through the accelerator pump while I'm stomping the accelerator pedal all the while. Once started, it will reliably start every day, as long as it's used every day. I read that this is not unusual for Zenith carbed cars.

I mention this for a little background on the starting sequence. The solenoid not only throws a lever to push the pinion gear into the ring gear, but grounds the starter (which we all know has a big line from B+, always hot). Once the solenoid causes the pinion and ring to merge, and if it grounds the starter, the starter will spin, crank the engine, and off you go. Assuming other bits are in good order.

On my car, the first few clicks of the solenoid don't cause the starter to spin. I think the starter isn't being grounded, though the pinion and ring gears may be engaging. I took out the starter once, a real humbug job b/c I had to remove the rear intake manifold and carb. The starter isn't sealed, but you have to de-solder a connection at/on the solenoid. I didn't want to do that, so just bench activated the solenoid and starter a bunch of times, separately and together, sprinkled holy water (and some WD-40) in dark places until things seemed to work. Reassembled, etc.

Hypothesis 1 is that the solenoid isn't throwing the pinion gear rearward (or far enough) to engage the ring gear. This suggests a worn area on the ring gear where the pinion makes no contact at all, as shown in Toshi's post 11 above. It may still start if in good tune and the pinion catches where there are still teeth. Hypothesis 2 is that the starter isn't reliably grounding.

My battery is years old and I'm surprised it still has juice. Never recharged, seldom used... but once it successfully starts, no problem until months later when it has gone sleepy again and the sequence recurs. Make of it what you will, but for the humbug of getting the original starter out, perhaps $70 for a stronger replacement isn't a bad idea. Sadly, shipping across the pond (starters can't swim) means that I'd pay a good deal more...
 
Well, maybe not such a great deal after all. Just lots of loud ticking and no engagement. They have a 30 day free return so I got what I paid for, if you bought one check it immediately.
 
Thanks - it arrived a few days ago and I have yet to bench test it. Given that I have a long business trip abroad soon (and wasn't going to get to the install until June at the earliest), I'll run 12v through it and see if it cranks. If it fails, I'll buy a reconditioned unit.
 
Yep, I just recondition any starter that fails. They hold up. They work, and the facility that does the rebuild is in the community, so they need to do it right. Has worked for me for decades for many vehicles. Not rocket science, just need trusted workmanship.
 
Yep, I just recondition any starter that fails. They hold up. They work, and the facility that does the rebuild is in the community, so they need to do it right. Has worked for me for decades for many vehicles. Not rocket science, just need trusted workmanship.
Who, in our community, does this? I'd be happy to send the core and pay for a rebuild - if only to keep it as a backup.
 
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