Starter sticking?

H

Honolulu

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,974
Reaction score
255
Location
Honolulu Hawaii
Gents: started the '73 today and it sounds like the starter is refusing to disengage from the ring gear. I dropped the clutch in first and it released or sounded like it had - on a later start a lurch in reverse did the trick. Given the hassle of removing the starter (includes rear carb and intake manifold removal) has anyone successfully dealt with this in a less labor-intensive manner?

I'll get the starter out if I have to, but would rather not. I've been into starters before but would like my fading reminescences to fade further.

TIA, weather's ab-sotively posi-lutely gorgeous here in Hawaii.
 
not done by myself, so it is only a thought, but your problem seems to be in the solenoid

so personally i would try to dissasemble the solenoid itself

thinking in loud voice, it seems that the solenoidis not dissengaged (not returning to the "rest" position), so before dissasembling anything i would try to understand what makes the solenoid to do its function, it seems that it will be a spring or something electrical

thus i will check the electric connections first, and then for the spring (if it exists) you must dissasemble things !

hope it helps
 
Mine is doing the same thing (and it's a new starter), the engine engaging will kick the solenoid back, but for example when I did a compression check recently with the ignition coil disconnected the starter would not go off even with the key turned back off. Made quite a racket! I had to disconnect the battery. Not sure it's any easier to get the solenoid out vs. removal of unit. Both are PIA.

Replacement (waranteed) starter going in this weekend :-(
 
Thanks, guys. The more I think about it, The issue is in the solenoid. The starter would keep the engine turning even with the key off. I know that if the engine is revved with the starter engaged, it is likely to quickly destroy the starter and/or muck up the ring gear.

Having run the car a few more times the problem hasn't gone away, so I may be in for removing the rear carb and manifold to get the starter out. Lucky me. But I think I may try to somehow get some lube in there... Don't know if that is possible but I will grasp at straws where I can.
 
Honolulu said:
Thanks, guys. The more I think about it, The issue is in the solenoid. The starter would keep the engine turning even with the key off. I know that if the engine is revved with the starter engaged, it is likely to quickly destroy the starter and/or muck up the ring gear.

Having run the car a few more times the problem hasn't gone away, so I may be in for removing the rear carb and manifold to get the starter out. Lucky me. But I think I may try to somehow get some lube in there... Don't know if that is possible but I will grasp at straws where I can.
Click to expand...

when i did my engine, i put the starter apart and dismount + regrease everything with appropriate lubes, cleaned the contacts and so on, now works perfect, so, probably it is a maintenance issue
good luck
 
...and while you're at it, may as well replace the starter brushes...I have a set if you want (I over-ordered a few.)

Don't remove the collar/C-ring at the pinion end of the armature unless you have to: it is difficult to remove and replace the C-ring.
 
Honolulu said:
But I think I may try to somehow get some lube in there... Don't know if that is possible but I will grasp at straws where I can.
Click to expand...

I am pessimistic that you will be able to inject lubricant into the starter without removing and disassembling it. Starters are pretty well sealed; they have to be designed so that dirt can't get in.

One thing you might check before disassembling things: try removing the smaller lead from the solenoid - the ~12 ga wire that comes from the ignition switch (not the large cable from the battery). Then use a simple remote start switch (like the one in the picture below) to energize the starter. See if it still sticks. If it does, then yeah, it needs to come out. But maybe, just maybe, your problem is electrical and external to the starter - if it is, it should go away when using the remote push button.

1422_2576_popup.jpg
 
Has anyone tried a SR441X starter over the SR71x?. I ask because the 71x is also designated for the E24 and most on that forum have done the switch to the 441x which is a pleasure to deal with (smaller, lightter easier to put in and take out and and higher voltage).
 
anyone tried the 444? built for the 5 liter and only 136.00

SR444X

Bosch (OE Reman)
Starter
1 per car. Bosch Ultimate Protection Plan Exclusive 24 Month Towing - 1-year replacement warranty, 2-year roadside assistance.

$451.25

$75.00

$136.54
$143.73
SALE
 
The smaller ones also allow you to use a socket on the bolts instead of contorting 2 different size 17mm crescent wrenches one notch at a time to get them on/off accompanied with a lot of cursing

HB Chris said:
I have the SR441X in my coupe, love it.
Click to expand...
 
Exactly, plus they weigh a lot less so if you don't use studs like some have put in, your arm doesn't go numb while you get the thing secured.
 
An update on the sticking starter is in order, along with some questions.

1. Do the easy things first... what came to me is that it ...might... be that the ignition switch was sticking in the "start" position.I spent some quality time with the electrical diagram from the Blue books, this was DeQuincey's suggestion, thanks... and found that the red wire to the switch is always hot from B+. In the "Start" position it powers the black wire which leads to the solenoid. There is a connector inline with that black wire under the dash, so I disconnected that, plugged in my test light and had my able assistant turn the key to "start". The light came on, there was no flickering, and went off as soon as the key was released to the "run" position. This gave me no joy, because it meant the switch was good and the problem was under the hood, where I'd hoped not to have to go.

2. Today I removed the rear carb and manifold together. I'd rather replace a transmission. But I did discover there is a lot of white corrosion cr*p on the manifold immediately below the water choke, though the two little choke hoses appeared to be intact (they will be replaced). Not to worry there are other hoses down there too. They will also be replaced.

3. I bench tested the starter with the battery and a momentary switch. The motor turned and to solenoid shoved the pinion gear in and out though not as snappily as I expected and on the second or third try the pinion gear would not retract. I removed the solenoid from the starter and it seems to be solenoiding in and out well, leaving the problem to the starter shaft or bendix (I think this is the correct term for the one way ratchet system for the pinion gear).

4. Removed the two long screws on the end of the starter. I tried to separate the starter motor from the cast iron housing enclosing the pinion gear, but could only separate them parts about half an inch. Quite a bit of black semi-powdery stuff came out, validating that it was due for cleaning.

QUESTION TIME... thanks for reading this far!

Q1. What am I missing that prevents disassembling the starter from the pinion gear assembly and casting?

Q2. Is the solenoid the only thing that retracts the pinion gear from the ring gear? It seems my pinion assembly (somewhat cleaned, and now lubricated a bit) will almost slide back and forth by gravity alone while the solenoid is removed. Is there a return spring hidden in the casting? If there's supposed to be a return spring it's not working and I'm in for a new/rebuilt starter.

Q3. Is there a chemical agent to remove scaly/bubbly corrosion from the manifold? I can use a degreaser then shop for some media blasting, but is there a better way to remove the white scaly stuff that threatens to eat through the water hose nipples below the manifold?
 
Last edited:
Honolulu:
Nothing besides the two screws holds the starter components together. The brush cover end, the casing, and the pinion assembly should come apart. You might be having difficulty removing the casing because one/all of the magnets are fragmenting and the pieces are jamming up against the armature. I have had two starters with crumbling magnet problems. Check the armature bushings for excessive play..if the armature is flopping around, that can create problems.

The solenoid has a spring inside it and I guess over time it loses strength and may not retract the pinion on occasion....especially with an old/weak battery on a cold day when it takes a few cranks to start. Not sure if new solenoids are available separately....
 
Honolulu:

I have an un-opened box containing a remanufactured starter - I went 441x as well - you can have for shipping and handling (there's a seat sale on now) (kidding about the airfare). Try CLR (bathroom scale remover) on the residue - worth a try - with a brass bristle brush.

PM if interested.

Doug
 
Sounds like a new starter is in order and try and fix that one for a backup. Who knows what could break next and then you have to remove the intake manifold again. Or is there someone on the island that can rubuild it?
 
DeCoupe - thanks for that offer, what would shipping be to USA zip code 96816? I will have to look up CLR and see what the active ingredient is. A web search for Aluminum cleaners points to Alumaprep 33 but it pretty toxic for home use... Right up my alley.

Stevehose - there are rebuilders here. I needed to know if the pinion gear is retracted by a spring integral to the bendix (pinion gear drive assembly) or just the solenoid. It has been pointed out that once the motor fires and exceeds the rotational speed of the starter, the pinion gear should be thrown back by BOTH the retracting solenoid and the bending.

This points to the problem being accumulation of crud in the bendix, and that soaking that end of the starter in some lacquer thinner followed by compressed air blowout should resolve the matter.

Haven't given up on trying to disassemble the starter for cleaning...
 
Last edited:
Unless you are stubborn (geeze you remind me of myself) and want the challenge, I would go rebuilt. I know it's your car but if you put this effort into another car and were only getting paid 140 bucks, would you? You can enjoy the feeling of putting in a new starter, knowing it will not give you a hassle for years to come and when that time comes, replacement will be much easier cause the thing is smaller and lighter.

NB: while you are at it, did you consider a carb rebuild since you have one of them off ? The other is easier to take off if I recall.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top