Terry Sayther's '72 CSL is up for auction again on BAT

mulberryworks

mulberryworks

Mr. Fixity
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This time it's a no reserve auction after the last two didn't reach the reserve. I got a quick look at this car on the lift here in Austin while it was undergoing some rust repairs years ago.
I hope it finds a good home.

bringatrailer.com

No Reserve: 39-Years-Owned 1972 BMW 3.0 CSL

Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: 39-Years-Owned 1972 BMW 3.0 CSL at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #187,792.
bringatrailer.com bringatrailer.com
 
That's a really cool build. The E9 always needed more poke, even the CSL and the M90 is the right answer. Same weight as the M30 but a much more responsive engine and backed up by a 5 speed, all the right pieces and a being a lightweight is the cherry on the top. I'll be curious to see what it goes for. Some purists would prefer as born, but this is so much more car. Doesn't mention what else is in the engine other than the fact it's a 3.6. Were I doing it I'd have added a cam and some headwork and hit just shy of 300 hp at the flywheel. That much power in a 2600-2700 lb car would be near a Cobra (small block version) in terms of power to weight ratio.
 
ElGrecko said:
That's a really cool build. The E9 always needed more poke, even the CSL and the M90 is the right answer. Same weight as the M30 but a much more responsive engine and backed up by a 5 speed, all the right pieces and a being a lightweight is the cherry on the top. I'll be curious to see what it goes for. Some purists would prefer as born, but this is so much more car. Doesn't mention what else is in the engine other than the fact it's a 3.6. Were I doing it I'd have added a cam and some headwork and hit just shy of 300 hp at the flywheel. That much power in a 2600-2700 lb car would be near a Cobra (small block version) in terms of power to weight ratio.
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My guess is that the market will not like the lack of originality and that car has been passed in twice before.

I know a very nice LHD injected CSL (located in US) for around 130k, with all the CSL bits. I'm not looking to bash cars, or their owners, but suspect it will struggle to get far above 100K USD.
 
ElGrecko said:
That's a really cool build. The E9 always needed more poke, even the CSL and the M90 is the right answer. Same weight as the M30 but a much more responsive engine and backed up by a 5 speed, all the right pieces and a being a lightweight is the cherry on the top. I'll be curious to see what it goes for. Some purists would prefer as born, but this is so much more car. Doesn't mention what else is in the engine other than the fact it's a 3.6. Were I doing it I'd have added a cam and some headwork and hit just shy of 300 hp at the flywheel. That much power in a 2600-2700 lb car would be near a Cobra (small block version) in terms of power to weight ratio.
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I have driven this car and it is a blast to drive. It is very responsive and fast!
 
It's a carb CSL chassis number, no? Deviations from stock: engine, painted engine bay, wheels, steering wheel, shift knob, steel hood, trunk trim, Bat kit, are those the right seats? what else? Doesn't really pay to take to original configuration, it seems. Just too many things to correct, not to mention the surface rust and oxidation.
 
I saw that the Ultra Lightweight at Autokennel wasn't moving and Paul said he decided to put more of the original bits on to make it look like an Ultra Lightweight should. no front air dam, no rear spoiler, correct wipers, refurbished factory stainless fender extensions, and the rare 5-hole 14x7 Alpina's on new CN36 tires. He pulled it off the market for a while to do this although it is still listed as it was. He said it should be finished soon. Excited to see how that turns out.

Wes could be correct here in that it may not get "far above" $100K, that is kind of subjective but I know what he means. Figure in all the market turmoil, going "no reserve" in these times, with a car like this takes some huevos. Shall be interesting to follow to say the least. I don't know Terry, have heard of him here and there over the years. Maybe instead of completely picking the car apart (like I'm sure has already been done on the previous auctions), we try and point out the positives. After all, it is still a CSL in Golf with a 3.6L M90!
 
Nachtycoupe said:
I saw that the Ultra Lightweight at Autokennel wasn't moving and Paul said he decided to put more of the original bits on to make it look like an Ultra Lightweight should. no front air dam, no rear spoiler, correct wipers, refurbished factory stainless fender extensions, and the rare 5-hole 14x7 Alpina's on new CN36 tires. He pulled it off the market for a while to do this although it is still listed as it was. He said it should be finished soon. Excited to see how that turns out.

Wes could be correct here in that it may not get "far above" $100K, that is kind of subjective but I know what he means. Figure in all the market turmoil, going "no reserve" in these times, with a car like this takes some huevos. Shall be interesting to follow to say the least. I don't know Terry, have heard of him here and there over the years. Maybe instead of completely picking the car apart (like I'm sure has already been done on the previous auctions), we try and point out the positives. After all, it is still a CSL in Golf with a 3.6L M90!
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it is missing the aluminum hood and aluminum trunk lid. that's probably a 25k / 30k+ add once painted ... if you could find originals. the correct wheels / tires are another 5k to 6k. steering wheel 4k. so that's around 35k / 40k and you can never have the original engine. this is my point about just enjoy driving a real CSL without worrying about anything. my take is that Terry wants to find a new owner / steward. we could be surprised, people may bid this up because they know they have a chance of owning it ... i just hope they realize what its missing. going in with eyes wide open and being informed is all i hope for.
 
Wes said:
My guess is that the market will not like the lack of originality and that car has been passed in twice before.

I know a very nice LHD injected CSL (located in US) for around 130k, with all the CSL bits. I'm not looking to bash cars, or their owners, but suspect it will struggle to get far above 100K USD.
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Yes, it likely won't bring big money due to the lack of originality... But,,,, It's a driver, not a concours car. Look under it. It isn't preened and with all new paint under there, it shows surface rust on the trailing arms and diff. There's an aftermarket (adjustable) rear sway bar with poly bushings and Heim joints that are going to make noise. I'm not a fan of the rear wing and the roof wing either. While having a concours perfect CSL would be great, I'd be nervous driving it, being afraid it would get hit by some dimwit and the value would be slammed. The body things that aren't original are only the hood and the rear side windows. The trunk lid is aluminum per the earlier auctions. Really the only things needed to put the body to 100% CSL are the hood and the side windows proper aluminum hood are available from Wallothnesch. The hood is $5500 plus shipping, the rear side Perspex windows are NLA, but Lexan ones are only $96 each from plastics4performance.com. You could if you wanted replace them with acrylic sheet and emboss them with the Perspex logo. Terry got the car without the aluminum hood and the original engine was long gone at that point. It will never be "matching numbers" but really, from a drivers standpoint the M90 is a much better engine with more torque and power everywhere. Were it mine I'd get an aluminum hood and Lexan side windows, put on a set of period correct DCOE's and lose the roof and trunk wings and switch to a dog leg close ratio transmission and enjoy every minute of driving it.
 
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i doubt its an aluminum trunk with that wing on it. the downforce would likely deform the aluminum - i believe the Bat1 + 2 had steel trunk lids. so you have 10k plus shipping, paint + installation for hood + trunk - by the time you get it on the car and do everything that you have to do ... you will spend 20k to 25k ... its not 15k. on the other hand, if they are real wings, you have something valuable to sell. if they are aftermarket wings, you still have something to sell. the 16" alpinas have value too ... but if its a driver, its something good to have.
btw - i don't believe the carb CSL didn't had the airdam originally either. looks good.
 
Everybody can have a view, but to get this car back to close to OEM involves a lot more than an W&N order. AMHIK

First things first.

People like Terry deserve our gratitude as without his intervention this car may have been lost decades ago. I genuinely wish him well with the sale.

Off the top of my head if going back to OEM, you need to find/fix the following as a minimum.

Prototip wheel.
Front valance is wrong (post-facelift).
Wrong engine and running gear - can't really fix that.
Wrong wheels - carb CSLs have slightly different Alpina's to injected cars.
Wrong bonnet/boot.
Structural body repairs/fabrication - there's a lot going on there - been a bit of 'choppy choppy' to get things to fit in the engine bay if I recall.
Wrong glass/perspex
If memory serves the OEM unique front suspension may also be gone - but need to go back and check.

Now go find and ship all of those NLA parts = 100k (give or take) and you haven't even started to pull the car apart, let alone body/paint

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of fun here to be had as a 'driver' and that's what market will determine.

But - if considering getting it back to OEM (or close to it), which is what this car deserves then expect to spend double the purchase price.

Whoever buys it can of course do as they wish. But given the historical significance my take is it goes back to OEM with a period correct engine and running gear.
 
rsporsche said:
i doubt its an aluminum trunk with that wing on it. the downforce would likely deform the aluminum - i believe the Bat1 + 2 had steel trunk lids. so you have 10k plus shipping, paint + installation for hood + trunk - by the time you get it on the car and do everything that you have to do ... you will spend 20k to 25k ... its not 15k. on the other hand, if they are real wings, you have something valuable to sell. if they are aftermarket wings, you still have something to sell. the 16" alpinas have value too ... but if its a driver, its something good to have.
btw - i don't believe the carb CSL didn't had the airdam originally either. looks good.
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In one of the previous BAT auctions they specifically said that it had the original aluminum trunk lid. Also in one of the previous auctions there is a shot of the interior of the lid and there are no counter torsion springs on it either.
 
The shot from the 2022 listing: rivetted catch, indicative of an alu trunk lid. Note that also no provisions (screwholes) for a mounting clam shell toolkit.
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I love the car. It screams "Use Me !!"
With a guestimate of around a 100k, I'm just 80K short, but I think I'd be able to treat her well.
I'm off to buy a lottery ticket. Again...
 
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