The 1970 2800 Project

[rblongboarder]

This post about a Bav on BAT really caught my attention:

A Bav on BaT

NMNA Looks like a very nice start for a 'project'................... https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-bmw-bavaria-23/

e9coupe.com

I've been thinking about various design elements and I had these ideas in my head... But what I really needed were some photos that helped me capture the differences.
Thanks to BAT, I found a pair of vehicles that had nearly identical side profile photos. I extracted and cropped a set of photos to illustrate what I've been visualizing...

Here's the first BAV:

No Reserve: 1972 BMW Bavaria 4-Speed Project

Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: 1972 BMW Bavaria 4-Speed Project at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #144,204.

bringatrailer.com

And the second BAV:

1972 BMW Bavaria

Bid for the chance to own a 1972 BMW Bavaria at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #62,458.

bringatrailer.com

The green '72 seems to have an original suspension profile. The blue '72 has a very subtle hot rod rake; I'd say the front is about 0.5" to 1.5" lower than the rear. The rake, combined with the rear spoiler gives the car a very sleek and sporty profile. It feels reminiscent of my '88 M5 and my '85 Euro E24 (I miss those cars...)

There's one other subtle difference.. the running lights have been removed on the blue '72.. and it doesn't have the chrome trim that runs along the body line just below the door handles. I'm not sure why, but in my mind, I get this "less is more" feeling...

 

[rblongboarder]

I continue to explore history and learn about the differences between the early and later versions of the E3. I found two cars, both from 1971 which seem to provide visuals that help me understand the differences in body styles and trim...

First up, a '71 2800 E3:

Used BMW Others for sale - AutoScout24

Find new and used BMW Others offers on AutoScout24 - the largest pan-European online car market.

www.autoscout24.com

 

[rblongboarder]

For comparison, a late-1971 E3 3.0S:

BMW from € 19,900.-

Find your BMW € 19,900.- – At AutoScout24: a European automotive classifieds leader.

www.autoscout24.com

 

[rblongboarder]

The most obvious exterior differences are in the rear portion of the cars:

• The taillights are very different.
• The early E3 model has a chrome attachment just above the trunk lock.
• The c-pillar design.. the early E3 has a grill piece that snaps in. The later E3 has a large rectangular / trapezoidal shape the runs the entire length of the c-pillar. I think this design feature was carried into the early E28's as well.

I like the Alpina-style rims on the early model E3... I see why those are so popular on E9's. The two-tone interior on the 3.0s is amazing. The wicker seat cover that converts into a map holder is equally impressive.. never seen anything like that. I wonder if it's Italian?

The 3.0S has Italian 2-color turn signals too? I think I've seen these for sale on eBay.

Finally (for now), I must say.. I like the stance of both vehicles... not sure if that's original, or modified by the owners, but there's a subtle rake in the hood line...

 

[Christoph]

It might have been easier, see: <https://e9coupe.com/forum/threads/series-1-2-3.45520/>.

Both cars shown here are not the best to learn from.

The 2800 has been heavily modified. Everything that could be replaced easily has been to get rid of the Series 1 look. That was quite common then to hide you owned a model of yesteryear. The outer front grilles were originally painted silver-grey and there was no beltline trim. You are right of course with the indestructible early rear lights and the grilles in the C-pillar (all four different, by the way). These parts still give away the Series 1 for they could not or not easily be changed. The large bar on the bootlid hints to the 2800, the 2500 does not have it. The 7" radial spoke wheels are a later addition, alloy wheels were not a works option in 1970, 7" alloy never were for the E3. The seats have been reclad, the material differs from the original vinyl in colour and pattern. This car came either with Tabakbraun vinyl, exactly like the doorpanels, or Goldbraun, i.e. beige, cloth, which I think more likely. Might have happened like this: when the cloth was ruined beyond repair someone took what was available. See the small hook in picture 15 on the firewall above the air filter housing? Centre windscreen wiper jet, projects through a hole in the bonnet, exclusive to Series 1. Not too important, this 2800 was built in October 1970, not in 1971.

The 3.0 S has been repainted, often necessary on Italian cars and not bad per se. As a common result, some trim parts are slightly bent. The wheel arch trim, standard on all 3 litre models, is missing (and near impossible to obtain today). The centre front grille and the trim rings on the wheels are Series 3, September 1973 onwards. The centre grille does not fit nicely, the grille panel should follow the line of the bonnet, not sit back. Seat covers that stay in place the whole ad are usually an alarm sign. Take pictures 9, 12, 13 & 15. This 3.0 S probably came with Sandbeige cloth which went with Tabakbraun doorpanels until roughly Sep. 1972. The rear bench is original, the velvet parts have yellowed, they always do, the corduroy stays beige. The backside of the driver's seat looks surprisingly fresh. Note the different states of the front seats from the front also; that of the passenger seat matches the rear bench, the driver's seat does not. What is going on here?

The amber-and-clear combined indicators and position lights were standard on all E3 for Italy. The position lights that had to be visible from the the car's side were an Italian specialty. Therefore, Italian cars also needed different light switches.

Finally, all E3 were level front and rear. Just like race cars are: on rough roads, like Nürburgring Nordschleife, lift the front a little, on all others keep both axles on identical heights.

Personal and not meant to be offensive: the two cars in the ads look as if someone fitted the rear springs for trailer pulling. Probably ruins the roadholding, may even be dangerous when going fast on country roads. Even more personal, still not meant to be offensive: I think it is ugly to have, even slightly, the front down and the rear up in the air. Looks as if the fuel pump was inoperative and the petrol must get to the engine downwards by gravity.

 

[rblongboarder]

Ah, the never ending saga of suspension... vanbavaria posted photos of his '72 on the road, and I learned something new...

Rolling shots of the e3

just a man and his dog.

e9coupe.com

 

[Larry Louton]

Hello RBL, Here is my car, Vin# 3103568. Removed rear spacers and installed H&R rear

lowering springs. S&T sway bars. When I installed the front lowering springs, the level was raked to the front. Had to go back and install the aluminum spacers on the top of the front shocks. The overall height change was 1 3/8 of inch. I was on first road test after installing a set of 272x22 ventilated rotors with a set of Hal Boyle caliper spacers. Retorqued wheels and installed center caps. I too want to remove all the moldings and side markers.

Larry Louton

 

[rsporsche]

Baikal sure looks great on the Bavaria / e3 ...

 

[rblongboarder]

Thanks Larry & rsporche for the stance photos and commentary on colors.

 

[rblongboarder]

The hitchhiker's guide to Bavarian adventures! Bands 1 and 2...

Hat tip to forum member Chris / GK-E30M3 for hooking me up with these; recommend you speak with him on E3 parts. He's got quite a stash..
(I also bought a full set of bumpers... coming soon.)

 

[Larry Louton]

Hello, RBL, Need to ask Chris for some parts, But his Chris / GK-E30M3 doesn't take me to him. Please resend.

Larry Louton

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

Try GK-E30M3

 

[Larry Louton]

Thank you for the clarification, This guy must be popular.

Larry Louton

 

[rblongboarder]

The Rosetta Stone to Advanced Bavarian Adventures?!? ... truth is, I had no idea these existed as a complementary set to Blue Books Band 1 & 2.

Hat tip to Bill in Yonkers -> It's amazing what you can find on CL if you dig enough. I've discovered in life that if you express sincere interest, good people will take a bit of time and show you the path. This is why I constantly post CL ads in the parts forums; it's my hope that I'll stumble across some nugget that someone else needs.. I'm willing to trade hard work for vintage car education. My dad used to say "the CEO should alway be able to sweep the floor."

"Genius is 99% Perspiration. 1% Inspiration."
-- Thomas Alva Edison

 

[CSBM5]

Those parts catalog books were indispensable in the old days. I was at Miller and Norburn one afternoon in 1980, and they had them in their display case along with a stack of them. I bought a set right away. It's hard to remember how difficult it was pre-internet, but I used them to plan many restore and repair jobs since you actually got to see what was going to be needed, what parts to order, etc. Sounds simple today, but 45 years ago...

Of course they were static as of the date of publication, so part numbers were superseded etc. I remember my local dealer had never seen them as I was the only parts counter customer who used to come in with the proper parts catalog location and part numbers. It saved them a lot of time microfiche hunting.

 

[rsporsche]

i still use them on the e9 as part numbers occasionally change and sometimes part numbers go away on realoem and the 'number on the picture' is erased.

 

[rblongboarder]

There's nothing like a 4:45AM bike ride to get your blood pumping... I ride an old school Trek 8500 SLR aluminum mountain bike frame.

Hope Tech in Britain is the Brembo of mountain bike brakes.. the V4 has amazing stopping power with the right rotors:

Enduro - Tech 4 V4

The Hope Tech R4 bike light is equally amazing (possibly no longer in production?):

https://www.hopetech.com/_repository/1/documents/R4_instructions_2018.pdf

 

[rblongboarder]

This video got me fired up.. and kicked up some dust in my imagination... more on that later.

https://e9coupe.com/forum/threads/restmod-xxl.46509/

I also enjoy reading this E3 / 2800 build log. The sense of commitment & detail is impressive... and the author indicated this was his first E3 build, so his blog encapsulates his learning curve.

1971 2800 Sahara

Purchased the car from a guy in Sioux Falls He said he had it for three years and drove it regularly. He got it from a "collector" in Colorado. Some one was doing work but it wasn't the PO i got it from. I have begun some basic dismantling of the interior. The trunk contained various parts to...

e9coupe.com

More inspiration on the way.. Nov 2nd at Woodley Park in Van Nuys; hope to see you there. I'll bring drinks in my cooler.

SoCal Vintage BMW

The Central Meeting Point for the Vintage BMW Community. The SoCal Vintage BMW Meet is always the first Saturday in November so it will be the same weekend as the France and Italy car show which is always the first SUNDAY, in the same location – A great European car weekend!

socalvintagebmw.com

 

[StephenZ]

Man, I miss living 15 minutes away from Woodley!! Can't wait to see pics!

 

[rblongboarder]

Here's an interesting comparison of straight six motors... [I'd love to make a table and compare these two engines.]

Frederick's 1970 2800 engine built by Metric Mechanics, featuring his triple Weber setup:

1971 2800 Sahara

Gorgeous! Going back to the brake booster connection, could you use a banjo fitting - like power steering hose end? Possibly, something to try.

e9coupe.com

And Luigi on the track:

Rolex Reunion With Luigi

A difficult weekend for Luigi at the Rolex Reunion. We suffered increasing power loss all weekend that we think is a result of a failing head gasket. Post race analysis will probably wait until winter as Jim and crew have a very busy fall race schedule. Please enjoy the video anyway and...

e9coupe.com

Speaking of motors... I want to see Ke-Ping Tsao's 1973 E9 3.0CS with a S38 (M5) motor in it. SoCal Vintage BMW fest.. November 2nd @ Woodley Park!

SoCal Vintage BMW

The Central Meeting Point for the Vintage BMW Community. The SoCal Vintage BMW Meet is always the first Saturday in November so it will be the same weekend as the France and Italy car show which is always the first SUNDAY, in the same location – A great European car weekend!

socalvintagebmw.com

17th Annual SoCal Vintage BMW Meet 2024 - Attendees

Attendees - Welcome to the 17th Annual SoCal Vintage BMW Meet which will take place on Saturday, November 2nd, 2024! The Meet will run from 8AM - 4PM. As always the Meet is at Wood...

www.motorsportreg.com