The IKEA effect and the lack of a Rule Book

[Arde]

I do not see an Ikea effect at all. Ikea is self assembled because the cost of labor is insanely high, not because most people enjoy it. Yesterday I spent a couple of hours assembling a fancy umbrella for the backyard and was not pleased my week-end time went to that.
The E9 blends nostalgia with art, and many of the people that have build threads like Paul Cain and DQ are actually improving over what the car originally was. I have apreciation for the past, sometimes music, sometimes art, and driving a well sorted E9 is "an in your face" rejection to all those that want to tell me that modernization equals progress.

 

[deQuincey]

I do not see an Ikea effect at all. Ikea is self assembled because the cost of labor is insanely high, not because most people enjoy it. Yesterday I spent a couple of hours assembling a fancy umbrella for the backyard and was not pleased my week-end time went to that.
The E9 blends nostalgia with art, and many of the people that have build threads like Paul Cain and DQ are actually improving over what the car originally was. I have apreciation for the past, sometimes music, sometimes art, and driving a well sorted E9 is "an in your face" rejection to all those that want to tell me that modernization equals progress.

in your face, ikea !

 

[Gazz]

I wonder if Ingvar Kamprad has an Ikea kitchen.

You can't fight modernisation but you can find find your own way - for now. Hopefully we won't be so manipulated by profiling that we don't even know..................? ( Hmm, I'm not telling them anything. )

 

[mark99]

The reason IKE is home assemble is to save on shipping costs not labor

 

[bavbob]

We must all keep in mind that we are a pre-selected population here. We chose the E9 because of who we are. It has not made us something we were not, rather we try to make it something it was. We all had E9 equivalents before ever having an E9. The issue for me is how I became this.

 

[jefflit]

Shall I throw a couple more "effects" on the fire?

I own 6 "fun" cars, not because I need them but because I like them and no one will pay what they are worth (to me). This is the Endowment Effect. Where your stuff is worth more because it is simply yours.

Speaking with JetDexter today, he was talking about how he almost bought a different coupe to replace the one he is now electrifying because he found all that unexpected fiberglass and rebar up in the shock towers and knew he was in for a LOT of rust repair. The other car looked amazing but was not cheap. Probably not as expensive as what he's had to spend in labor to fix the rusty car but still not inexpensive. In the end, he didn't buy it because it didn't come with photo documentation of the build and he really couldn't be sure what was hiding under that shiny paint. This is the Market for Lemons, where asymmetrical knowledge pushes one to value other people's thing less because you don't know the condition of other people's stuff. Which also means your stuff has more value because you know the history, "so the devil you know is better".

And, finally, there is the always appropriate concept of quality as explained by Pirsig in the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance . As many of you know, the book details two types of personalities: those who are interested mostly in gestalts (romantic viewpoints focused on being "in the moment", and not on rational analysis), and those who seek to know details, understand inner workings, and master mechanics (classic viewpoints with application of rational analysis, vis-a-vis motorcycle maintenance). You can guess which one the book favors. Personally, I've always found the most relevant portion of the book the discussion of Gumption Traps, which I tend to fall into often. This concept has really helped me walk away from a task and come back to it another day with renewed enthusiasm.

 

[mark99]

there are lots of interesting behavior psychology books that cover a lot of this, one that comes to mine: how pleasure works

 

[Gazz]

I'm not sure that "gestalts" should be applied to ( non commercial ) car restoration. Some people apply a lot of rational analysis to their romantic pursuits.

Gumption traps however - now you're talking.

 

[bluecoupe30!]

Well, since we are "sharing"....as already noted, this group has certain, well, characteristics. And when one of us is reaching out and is looking for " the meaning of life" as regards to the time, money, space, obsession dedicated to completing what they deem a required activity to finish, clean, house, show their car(s) , they need some other folks to understand. I recognize I am so over the cliff, there is no going back. My sons get whatever is left. They still talk of the particular fragrance they experience whenever they are in my Coupe-the leather, the sheepskins, the engine oil, and whatever that musty smell is that comes out of the heater vents-it is specific to my E9, and a special sensory experience for them. My cars are valued at whatever insurance will cover, I watch BAT, Hagerty, E9 Forum, and other sites for values, but it really doesn't matter, I am keeping my Coupe, my Healey 3000, my Healey, 100/4, finishing the Bugeye, keeping my old F250, and will soon start in on my 1967 Airstream Overlander Land Yacht! Helps to vent and see that others hit the wall from time to time, and wonder if it is all "sensible". It really is! Great topic. Mike

 

[Peter Coomaraswamy]

"In conversation, do we listen-or wait to talk"

-Pulp Fiction

 

[paul]

It's all about Pleasure!
Pleasure is a broad class of mental states that humans experience as positive, enjoyable, or worth seeking. It includes more specific mental states such as happiness, entertainment, enjoyment, ecstasy, and euphoria. This can also be described as the "E9 Effect"

 

[Belgiumbarry]

@paul , but i do get the same effect out of a good whiskey…..

 

[Gazz]

"In conversation, do we listen-or wait to talk"

-Pulp Fiction

I think it's important to do both. Isn't that what a conversation is? What if all parties just listened? Maybe it depends on what you mean by "listen". And also what you mean by "wait to talk".

 

[oldcoupe]

Perhaps you should read -
Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work
by Matthew B. Crawford

Crawford addresses, in a somewhat prolix fashion, the issues around why it is necessary to engage in craft.
My own take is that craft, crafting, craftsmanship, is kind of the opposite of efficiency. I would describe Ikea and its products as an epitome of efficiency yet to spend years on an E9 project, as I am also engaged in, I would describe as craft. Doing it the right way, the inventive way, the careful way, the long way, all for your satisfaction. Yes it can be very frustrating and there are times when I just have to walk away however another element to satisfaction is persistence. Eg. after much fiddling, looking at, measuring, etc, I think I have come up with a way route my power steering hoses. I have spent many hours on just this problem alone but the moment of realisation is what makes it worthwhile.
Check out many of deQ's projects - now here is a craftsman. ( I am assuming he derives enjoyment from what he does ). Who would restore an old work tray to an as original condition in the name of efficiency? It's the love of the process, and only you can know what it means to you, and your soul.

Gazz - greetings from Melbourne.
Thanks for mentioning that excellent book. Probably given more than ten copies to people who would appreciate it.
Oldcoupe

 

[Gazz]

Gazz - greetings from Melbourne.
Thanks for mentioning that excellent book. Probably given more than ten copies to people who would appreciate it.
Oldcoupe

Hi there oldcoupe and greetings from the Gold Coast.

I just wish he would tone down the language a little because the message is relatively simple - working with your hands is good. At times, struggling through Crawford's sesquipedalian loquaciousness is like trying to swim in molasses.

 

[Bmachine]

I just wish he would tone down the language a little because the message is relatively simple - working with your hands is good. At times, struggling through Crawford's sesquipedalian loquaciousness is like trying to swim in molasses.

Haha, I had the same reaction. I thought he was trying way too hard to intellectualize everything.

 

[oldcoupe]

Read his next - The World Beyond Your Head ? He tries much harder. But in it he has a chapter titled Attention and Design which explains why so many of us like driving older cars.

 

[Gazz]

Read his next - The World Beyond Your Head ? He tries much harder. But in it he has a chapter titled Attention and Design which explains why so many of us like driving older cars.

I had to give up on that one; I've only got one lifetime.

 

[JetDexter]

Wow guys I can't believe I missed this thread until Jeff mentioned it to me this morning. Not that I have anything of value to add to it. I am a simple man and half of this conversation flew right over my head I do completely agree with the reasoning (or rationalizations) presented in this thread for the time and money we pump into our cars. I enjoyed seeing how thoughtful a bunch of car guys can be about our emotional attachments, and what causes it.

However, as I think about the cars I have built, I also think about how I have let most of them go for far less than they were worth. It may have been that a friend really wanted it and I was willing to build another car, or I needed funds to start an even harder project. That tells me that I must enjoy the journey as much (or perhaps more) than the reward. During the build I don't feel this way at all. All I can think of is the great drives up the coast, the car shows with buddies and such. But as soon as it's finished my brain must be feeling unfed of challenges, so it starts looking for another project.

I am promising myself that the CSE will be the one I finally hold on to, but then I said that about the e28 M5, the Jensen Healey, 124 Spider, Spitfire, 260z, Alfa Spider. I miss all of those cars (oddly the 124 Spider the most). I had no business selling any of them, short of the space to store them and the funds needed for the next project. I suppose at 52 I finally have a bit more of both space and funds, so I hope I can start my next project while holding on to this one.

Regarding the build thread Jeff, you had better do one. I understand that you want to avoid an ego-filled, narcissistic gloat thread. But they are what you make it. I would have never gotten my project this far if I hadn't poured over those build threads. Both here and on DIYelectriccar. Sure there may be some threads more boastful than others, but I don't see much of that. I personally think that the community needs a build thread for every car on here. There will be one little nugget of information on there that will help the next guy. But more than that, we are honestly interested to follow your progress.

Great stuff!

Paul

 

[shanon]

The answer to the un-asked question is simple: 42.